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Education Interim hearing automatic transcript

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[00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:06.600]  Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our education interim meeting. We're grateful to have you here this morning.
[00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:08.960]  We're getting started with the full agenda.
[00:00:09.500 --> 00:00:13.580]  We appreciate everybody's attendance, and we're going to try and move as quickly as we can today.
[00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:17.580]  We have a number of items to hear prior to the beginning of the legislative session in January.
[00:00:18.360 --> 00:00:27.700]  I'll just note that Representative Perucci had mentioned to some individuals that there might be a charter school amendments discussion,
[00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:33.760]  bill discussion on today's agenda. As an oversight, it's not on the agenda today,
[00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:38.560]  so it'll be heard the first week of session. So just if you're here for that particular reason,
[00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:44.660]  just want to make you aware. Our first item of business is we do have a quorum. We acknowledge
[00:00:44.660 --> 00:00:51.140]  and recognize Senator Fillmore and Senator Wilson who are online. Our first item of business is to
[00:00:51.140 --> 00:00:56.660]  approve the minutes from the October 15th, 2025 meeting. And I'd accept a motion from a member of
[00:00:56.660 --> 00:01:02.260]  the body or for a member of the committee all right we have a motion from senator reby
[00:01:02.260 --> 00:01:11.400]  we lost quorum senator reby we'll come back to that motion at a later time
[00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:17.960]  thank thank you very much i appreciate um apparently i said a few too many words
[00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:26.420]  before we began this morning so uh we'll turn some uh time over to uh our policy analyst
[00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:30.920]  finn rose he's got one item that one announcement that he needs to address and then we'll move to
[00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:42.300]  our first agenda item or second agenda item all right thank you good morning committee members
[00:01:42.300 --> 00:01:46.020]  finn rose managing policy on us with the office of legislative research and general counsel
[00:01:46.020 --> 00:01:52.500]  real quickly during the 2025 general session the legislature passed hb 260 first credential
[00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:56.580]  program. One of the requirements outlined in the bill is that the First Credential Oversight
[00:01:56.580 --> 00:02:00.580]  Committee is responsible for creating a comprehensive master plan to guide the development,
[00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:05.720]  approval, and support of First Credential Programs statewide. Pursuant to reporting requirements
[00:02:05.720 --> 00:02:10.200]  outlined in the bill, the First Credential Oversight Committee is required to present the
[00:02:10.200 --> 00:02:15.840]  master plan to our committee during the November 2025 Interim Committee meeting. Due to time
[00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.000]  constraints and to meeting the reporting requirement, the First Credential Oversight
[00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:25.160]  committee staffed by the Utah State Board of Education have provided three documents which
[00:02:25.160 --> 00:02:29.740]  can be found in the committee materials, including the master report itself, a memo addressing the
[00:02:29.740 --> 00:02:35.660]  committee, and a brief one-pager. And then just one thing to note, that the master plan will also
[00:02:35.660 --> 00:02:43.400]  be uploaded by USB staff to the agency reporting program that the legislature has as soon as some
[00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.060]  technical difficulties are worked out to make sure that the report fully meets accessibility
[00:02:47.060 --> 00:02:50.680]  requirements. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to committee staff. Thank
[00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:56.060]  you. All right. Thank you. I appreciate that very much. All right. We'll move to our
[00:02:56.060 --> 00:03:03.120]  legislative auditors. We'll give them some time with regard to the best practice handbook for
[00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:09.540]  student achievement. And we'll turn the time to Darren Underwood, Tanner Cox, and Rebecca Manning,
[00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:12.880]  Office of Legislative Auditor General Staff.
[00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:20.160]  Sorry, let me get your mic working.
[00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:23.600]  I think we're good now.
[00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:25.340]  Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee.
[00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:26.320]  It's good to be here today.
[00:03:27.420 --> 00:03:33.040]  We always appreciate how willing this committee is to hear our reports.
[00:03:34.220 --> 00:03:40.000]  We're going to start today with a little bit of a different report.
[00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:46.620]  This is, as you mentioned, Mr. Chair, our best practice handbook for student achievement in public education.
[00:03:47.060 --> 00:03:50.060]  It's not a traditional audit.
[00:03:50.060 --> 00:03:56.880]  This was our way of collaborating with the education community.
[00:03:56.880 --> 00:04:03.120]  One of the goals was we have now finished our eighth performance audit, systemic audit
[00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.940]  of our LEAs.
[00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:11.780]  One of the questions we have when we go out there is, what are you going to look at?
[00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:16.600]  This slide that we have up here is just a paraphrase of statute.
[00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:23.040]  The goal of public education being student learning and academic achievement that we,
[00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:29.960]  which is consistent with the legislature's mandate that we be the best educated citizenry.
[00:04:29.960 --> 00:04:39.760]  So the way that we can do this is to let our LEAs know what will we be looking for to make
[00:04:39.760 --> 00:04:42.720]  sure that we're doing that in public education.
[00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.240]  Let's go to the next slide.
[00:04:47.200 --> 00:04:50.840]  We wanted to acknowledge those that we worked with.
[00:04:51.780 --> 00:04:57.540]  Many players, in fact, the day after the best practice handbook was released, we went down
[00:04:57.540 --> 00:05:00.000]  to the...
[00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:07.140]  Utah's School Board Association, and presented to their Leadership Academy the principles
[00:05:07.140 --> 00:05:12.600]  that we're going to present to you very briefly today, and we appreciate our working relationship
[00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:13.540]  with all these groups.
[00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:20.700]  Just to shout out a couple, we worked with Utah State's Center for the School of the
[00:05:20.700 --> 00:05:23.820]  Future was one of them, and several others you can see, and we appreciate that.
[00:05:25.180 --> 00:05:27.120]  So we're going to dive right in.
[00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:42.400]  And one of the principal tenets of the best practice handbook was to speak to the different levels of education and to have a message to say playing your roles is very key.
[00:05:42.400 --> 00:05:52.340]  For example, when we talk about principals, taking the burden off of teachers so that they can focus on instruction, just as an example.
[00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.220]  So we'll go through a few of these today and then respond to questions.
[00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:02.960]  So, as Darren noted, we're really trying to answer the question of what does it take to
[00:06:02.960 --> 00:06:07.680]  run an effective LEA, and what does it look like in the boardroom, what does it look like
[00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:13.440]  in the classroom, and so we have three general chapters, one focused on the school board,
[00:06:13.440 --> 00:06:18.600]  one focused on the central office, so that's your school district or charter school administration,
[00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:23.400]  and then a third section that's focused specifically on school principals and how they can support
[00:06:23.400 --> 00:06:28.860]  teachers and student and student learning we wanted this to be very
[00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:34.860]  principle based so we have each section contains a series of general principles
[00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:39.240]  that apply to that particular group and then there's specific practices
[00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.860]  associated with those principles so for school boards the main thing that we
[00:06:43.860 --> 00:06:49.260]  found is setting the vision the role of the school board is to set the vision the
[00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:55.100]  mission the goals setting the direction for the lea making sure they're keeping a focus on that
[00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:59.880]  and then working with their superintendent to make sure that the superintendent is aligned
[00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:04.820]  to the vision mission and goals of the lea and that those vision that vision mission and goals
[00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:09.700]  are all focused on student achievement that's the primary goal of the board and so we talked
[00:07:09.700 --> 00:07:15.180]  a lot about other strategies board members can use to it you know to accomplish that strategic
[00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:21.100]  planning budgeting frameworks for superintendent evaluations but that's the general idea we say
[00:07:21.100 --> 00:07:26.780]  what does the school board need to do to improve student learning and then we wanted this to be
[00:07:26.780 --> 00:07:30.940]  helpful i mean it's helpful to have general principles but we also wanted to be specific
[00:07:30.940 --> 00:07:36.300]  and give people some guidance on what this looks like so we spent a ton of time in the field we
[00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:42.620]  went to i think it was around 50 or 60 schools we talked to educators around the state we sat in
[00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:48.300]  classrooms we observed board meetings and we tried to identify specific
[00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:52.640]  instances of a practice being implemented or an instance where practice
[00:07:52.640 --> 00:07:57.540]  wasn't implemented well so that we could show this is the principle this is the
[00:07:57.540 --> 00:08:00.860]  practice this is what it looks like on the ground so for example when we talk
[00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.900]  about board members past audits found that charter board members would benefit
[00:08:05.900 --> 00:08:09.800]  from some more training on their roles and responsibilities especially when it
[00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:14.080]  comes to working with superintendents we note that that's a specific area that
[00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:18.640]  you know we we've noted in past auto work that could that could improve and we
[00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:25.180]  also found that Park City's strategic plan was actually very comprehensive is
[00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:30.320]  very thorough and also included guidance on how the budget aligns with strategic
[00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:34.500]  plan so we're just trying to show that throughout the report we've got
[00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:39.040]  principles we've got practices and we have examples from Utah school districts
[00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:41.860]  and from around the country of what these things look like in the field.
[00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:46.780]  And then at the end, we wanted to give people a little bit of homework.
[00:08:47.180 --> 00:08:50.300]  So we have at the end of each section, we have some resources for them.
[00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:53.860]  So board members can look at this and have some questions they can use
[00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:57.660]  to figure out how they can improve and resources they can use to do that.
[00:09:00.640 --> 00:09:07.240]  So I think the cheat sheet of the handbook would be to turn to the back on page 59
[00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:12.640]  and say okay where can I go it's not so much a to-do list as more of a just a
[00:09:12.640 --> 00:09:17.620]  how can we as an LEA check ourselves we have this complete list of best
[00:09:17.620 --> 00:09:22.780]  practices nine best practices to board members then to the central offices and
[00:09:22.780 --> 00:09:28.780]  to the school principals so they can say okay are we implementing these kinds of
[00:09:28.780 --> 00:09:32.560]  things and so that was something we wanted to highlight we won't go through
[00:09:32.560 --> 00:09:38.200]  through them now but they're they're there in the back so as Tanner mentioned
[00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:43.880]  each section has principles examples and resources the second section of this
[00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:48.880]  report is focused on what an effective LEA central office looks like and their
[00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:54.800]  role in supporting principals and schools the key tenets of this section are that
[00:09:54.800 --> 00:10:00.000]  a central office will align its staff around supporting schools ensure each school
[00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.600]  has a high-quality principal and provide instructional clarity for teachers.
[00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:13.060]  The key example that we wanted to point you to in this section focuses on that conversation
[00:10:13.060 --> 00:10:14.900]  around high-quality principals.
[00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:20.660]  We found in our past audit work and in our field work for this project that not very
[00:10:20.660 --> 00:10:26.640]  many schools have a good process for identifying future principals and training them so that
[00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:33.220]  they're ready to step into the school and be an effective leader. On the other side of this,
[00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:39.320]  we saw that Houston Independent School District in Texas has a very robust principal pipeline that
[00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:46.820]  they've built out. Potential principals spend a year training and preparing before they enter
[00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:52.740]  the school, and they pointed to this as a key factor for the great success that they're seeing
[00:10:52.740 --> 00:11:05.520]  there right now. Lastly, our final section is focused on school principles. All the research
[00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:12.920]  is so clear that an effective principle is critical to improving student learning in a school. I'll
[00:11:12.920 --> 00:11:17.680]  just read this little passage from the report. This is research from the Wallace Foundation. It
[00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:26.120]  It says, "If below-average elementary principles were to be replaced by above-average principles,
[00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:32.900]  students would gain an extra 2.9 months of math learning and 2.7 months of reading."
[00:11:32.900 --> 00:11:35.940]  So let's average that to round up to three months.
[00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:40.860]  If you have an effective principle, students can gain an extra three months of math and
[00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.100]  an extra three months of reading.
[00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:47.020]  So we've tried to figure out, okay, well, if principles are so critical, what does it
[00:11:47.020 --> 00:11:51.320]  look like? What are they actually doing? What should they be doing to implement this? And
[00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:57.080]  we have four general principles, four principles. This is where like the language in the report
[00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:03.460]  gets a little silly, but the principles for principals is that they need to be visionary
[00:12:03.460 --> 00:12:09.000]  school planners. There's a lot of different plans that exist in public ed. Effective principles are
[00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.440]  able to combine all of those into a clear and coherent message for teachers about what they're
[00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.760]  going to accomplish, aligning all of the resources to make sure those goals can be met.
[00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.940]  They're champions of teacher collaboration. They understand the PLC process. They understand what
[00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:28.200]  it looks like for teachers to work together and what, and they're also instructional leaders. So
[00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:32.880]  they can walk into a classroom and understand what's going well, what's not going well. How do
[00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:37.740]  we improve instruction for our teachers so that they're implementing best practices? And finally,
[00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:42.800]  they're experts in tiered interventions. So when a student isn't doing well, they know exactly what
[00:12:42.800 --> 00:12:46.880]  resources are available to help that student they have a system in place to
[00:12:46.880 --> 00:12:52.940]  make sure students can get the additional support that they need so that's that's
[00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:56.960]  our presentation it's very brief those are the three general sections right we
[00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:00.300]  have section for the board section for the central office a section for the
[00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:06.260]  schools the resources the additional questions but yeah Darren I think that's
[00:13:06.260 --> 00:13:09.860]  it for me thank you members of the committee we'll take questions now we're
[00:13:09.860 --> 00:13:15.700]  just uh it was just a great opportunity for us to collaborate with the education community and
[00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:23.140]  i think one vignette was that uh after we presented down in uh at bryce canyon with the school
[00:13:23.140 --> 00:13:29.440]  associate this i mean the board association one superintendent came up and asked if they could
[00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:34.860]  have 35 copies we're like absolutely we can print for you so um thank you for your time
[00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:41.700]  thank you for your presentation uh chair johnson uh my mine is more of a comment than a question
[00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:50.240]  but i i really appreciate the work on this i i i think it's nice you know uh for people to
[00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:55.920]  understand that you know they don't necessarily that you know sometimes they may fear the
[00:13:55.920 --> 00:14:02.060]  legislative auditors but here's a case of collaboration where i i think we've i think
[00:14:02.060 --> 00:14:07.480]  you've done a good job of actually outlining you know some of what we're doing well and what what
[00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.820]  are the best practices across the state i would encourage everybody to really dive in and read
[00:14:12.820 --> 00:14:17.260]  through this though i think there's a lot of really good information in and i know we've kind
[00:14:17.260 --> 00:14:23.520]  of cut you short on time in in getting into some of the details but i i you know i hope everybody
[00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:29.020]  does a deep dive on this and and looks at it i think it i i think it will help the schools across
[00:14:29.020 --> 00:14:38.920]  the state. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator Johnson. Senator Reby. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:42.840]  I guess that's why there's no printed copies over there because you gave them out.
[00:14:43.420 --> 00:14:48.720]  I'm just kidding. They're here. We'll get them out. And it is on our website. I'm looking at it
[00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:56.820]  right now. So I have a few questions about, I agree with principals being our strong leaders,
[00:14:56.820 --> 00:15:00.000]  but when we think about how our principles are created,
[00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:05.760]  they self-select i have an admin degree i had to pay to go to school to get that admin degree so
[00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:11.520]  how would you address having us select better principals if we're self-selecting because you
[00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:18.480]  need to go get a um a certification for that is there something that worked in houston where they
[00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:25.920]  identify strong leaders and then they paid for their education so what was the plan for that one
[00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:32.000]  yeah that was uh that that's kind of the idea is that it wasn't just a guaranteed you know you just
[00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.960]  apply for a position get a degree or whatever and then you're a principal it's you'd go through a
[00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.480]  really robust training program and you weren't actually guaranteed a job at the end of that was
[00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:46.140]  my understanding so you would go it was really rigorous you'd get a lot of on the on the ground
[00:15:46.140 --> 00:15:51.340]  training um really hands-on training on the houston model so that they were you know that
[00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:55.440]  they had a year to really understand what was expected of them and then the end of that process
[00:15:55.440 --> 00:16:01.260]  then they would apply for a principal position what that would look like in utah you know that
[00:16:01.260 --> 00:16:06.040]  might be a little different district by district but the idea is that creating a really robust
[00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:11.980]  process for selecting exactly you're saying selecting your top instructional leader identifying
[00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:17.380]  those people who you think would be really in a position to not just handle the administration of
[00:16:17.380 --> 00:16:21.540]  the school but to really help improve the instruction and making sure that that person
[00:16:21.540 --> 00:16:28.040]  got training and to understand what exactly they need to do it's not just um you know i get a degree
[00:16:28.040 --> 00:16:33.780]  i apply for a job that there's a full pipeline a whole built-out process for making sure that
[00:16:33.780 --> 00:16:39.740]  the top people are the principals in the school thank you may i have a follow-up yes thanks um
[00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:47.240]  i spend a lot of time in schools 24 years um it's i appreciate the work you're doing i appreciate
[00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:53.600]  you going into our schools but a lot of our schools are feeling a lot of stress and some of
[00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:58.520]  the things that you're saying here are hard to implement because we pass so many laws and we
[00:16:58.520 --> 00:17:04.520]  pass so many policies that we don't really have that flexibility to almost implement what you're
[00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:11.180]  saying here so um i think that as a body we should start looking at if we want to be responsive to
[00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:16.980]  our communities and we want to be responsive in our leas we really need to stop creating so many
[00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:25.240]  policies and rules and laws that dictate everything we do. I know that many schools
[00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:32.920]  I've been to across the state have a very, very strong schedule and master plan, and
[00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:39.340]  that doesn't lend itself to being as responsive as you're saying. So I do appreciate the work
[00:17:39.340 --> 00:17:45.500]  you're doing, but as I hear some of these audit suggestions, they almost run counterintuitive to
[00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:50.760]  some of the laws we're making up here. So I think as a body, we should start recognizing that we need
[00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:55.540]  latitude in our districts to be responsive. So thank you for the work you've done. I love your
[00:17:55.540 --> 00:18:00.720]  audits. I love reading the hard copies and the online copies. So thank you. Thank you, Senator.
[00:18:00.820 --> 00:18:06.640]  Appreciate the comments. Representative Vox here. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the questions that I
[00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:13.000]  have is, it seems like when I visited schools, usually they do seem to pick a teacher who is
[00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:18.960]  also interested and and start that training process bringing them in as a vice principal
[00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.920]  or as an instructional coach first and going through that so it does seem maybe like a pipeline
[00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.160]  on a smaller scale do you did you look at that and and how that process works and maybe how we
[00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:37.100]  could use that if we didn't want to do a full new program of the principal pipeline yeah that's a
[00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:43.080]  Good question. I mean, I think everyone has some form of this to a certain extent, right? I mean,
[00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:46.840]  it's not like they're picking a first-year teacher and that person just suddenly becomes
[00:18:46.840 --> 00:18:51.660]  a principal the next day. It's, yeah, there's definitely a process that's built out.
[00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:57.940]  The question is how intentional is the process? How systematic is it? One thing we point out is
[00:18:57.940 --> 00:19:03.300]  the principal training itself may be lacking in some areas. It may be highly focused on
[00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:08.500]  administrative matters and maybe lacking in instructional matters. So you're training people
[00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:15.180]  on school administration, which is obviously part of the job, but there may be an opportunity to also
[00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:20.660]  train on these areas that we're talking about, teacher collaboration, maybe some content-specific
[00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:26.720]  information, instructional practice. It's making sure that the principal is very well-rounded and
[00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:31.460]  able to tackle all of the problems associated with being a principal, not just the administrative
[00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:41.040]  piece okay thank you all right thank you um we have no further questions so thank you for your
[00:19:41.040 --> 00:19:46.820]  report um in just a moment we're going to go to sensitive materials in schools and school library
[00:19:46.820 --> 00:19:53.280]  books but before we do that uh we'll go back to our motion we'll go back to uh approval of the
[00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:58.640]  minutes from october 15 2025 uh senator rebe you'd previously made a motion you're willing to make
[00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:00.000]  another motion for us i
[00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.180]  I make a motion that we approve the minutes.
[00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:04.220]  - All right, we have a motion.
[00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:06.400]  Do we have any discussion to that motion?
[00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:08.800]  All right, seeing none, all in favor, please say aye.
[00:20:08.800 --> 00:20:10.700]  - Aye. - Aye.
[00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:12.200]  - Any opposed?
[00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:13.900]  Okay, that carries unanimously.
[00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:15.600]  Thank you, Senator Reby.
[00:20:15.600 --> 00:20:18.700]  All right, we'll move to our third agenda item,
[00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:21.020]  legislative audit sensitive materials in schools
[00:20:21.020 --> 00:20:22.700]  and school library books.
[00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:26.400]  We'll invite the Office of Legislative Auditor General Staff,
[00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.500]  Leah Blevins, Morgan Hagley, Brittany Anderson,
[00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:32.760]  Delaney Rasband from our Legislative Auditor General Staff.
[00:20:33.580 --> 00:20:34.760]  The time is yours when you're ready.
[00:20:37.520 --> 00:20:39.660]  Thank you so much for this opportunity.
[00:20:42.020 --> 00:20:48.180]  Just as an introduction, we released the first of the audits that we're going to present in June,
[00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:58.480]  and it focuses really on the processes and whether the process that the legislature set up is working effectively.
[00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:06.420]  After we released that audit, we were asked to look at books that are actually in schools that may not have gone through the challenge process.
[00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.100]  And so that will be the second audit that we present.
[00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:21.620]  We want to thank the Board of Education, especially their library specialist, and the many districts and schools that we worked with.
[00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.660]  Everyone is interested in finding the best way to do this.
[00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:27.320]  And so we're really grateful for that.
[00:21:27.320 --> 00:21:30.800]  And if it's all right, Mr. Chair, I'll turn it over to Morgan Hagee.
[00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:31.980]  That'd be great. Thank you.
[00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:34.020]  Thank you.
[00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:40.480]  We just want to start off with the major theme that we found throughout all of the work that we did over these two projects
[00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:52.500]  is that there is opportunity to create proactive processes that will help prevent the need for more reactive procedures throughout schools in Utah.
[00:21:55.100 --> 00:22:02.120]  So for that first audit, we evaluated the LEA's management of sensitive materials.
[00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:06.520]  So we looked at digital content, library books, and classroom libraries.
[00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:10.660]  And we reviewed 15 school districts and two charter schools.
[00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:15.880]  We focused on filtering systems, policy compliance, and communication practices.
[00:22:17.300 --> 00:22:25.040]  In the first chapter of the audit, we found that LEAs are inconsistently applying what's called keyword filtering.
[00:22:25.100 --> 00:22:30.980]  on their internet filters especially regarding utah's online school library so the first picture
[00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:36.780]  you see there is as if this is from a real school district on a student device on school wi-fi
[00:22:36.780 --> 00:22:43.680]  they are implementing keyword filtering for google so when we attempted to find illicit materials we
[00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.360]  were unable to because they are filtering out those word searches the second picture shows that
[00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:52.740]  on utah's online school library this same school district was not employing keyword filtering
[00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:58.640]  so anything that I could search within that specific database the search would go through
[00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:03.480]  and while we did not find any materials that would be considered inappropriate in our searches
[00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.100]  because we couldn't find the materials there because we don't think they were on the website
[00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:14.360]  we still were able to do the search so that means that if a kid has a computer they can type this in
[00:23:14.360 --> 00:23:19.280]  on a school device and they can search for these words so our recommendation was to the legislature
[00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:26.160]  to consider requiring school districts to keyword filter on any database that students have access
[00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:36.520]  to, not just big ones like Google. In chapter two, we talk about that most LEAs that we found
[00:23:36.520 --> 00:23:42.460]  are following the process as set up in statute, but there is still some confusion about how it's
[00:23:42.460 --> 00:23:48.780]  implemented, and part of that is because it was such a new process when we went in. So there's
[00:23:48.780 --> 00:23:56.000]  We have on the slide some of the things that were confusing, removing books, the timing
[00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:06.880]  of removing books, confusion between administrators and librarians, and just not knowing what
[00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:08.460]  the process is on some parts.
[00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:17.620]  In chapter three, we specifically focus on classroom libraries and found sort of a similar
[00:24:17.620 --> 00:24:22.040]  issue where classroom teachers weren't super aware of what the requirements were for sensitive
[00:24:22.040 --> 00:24:25.880]  materials or for choosing books or removing them as they went through.
[00:24:28.580 --> 00:24:32.020]  So we released that audit with some accompanying recommendations.
[00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:34.240]  I'm so sorry, excuse me.
[00:24:34.840 --> 00:24:42.600]  And then we released the follow-up in October 2025 and reviewed books that we assured were
[00:24:42.600 --> 00:24:43.800]  found in school libraries.
[00:24:44.100 --> 00:25:00.000]  And it really reiterates the recommendation from the first audit, which is to have a system, whether it's school, LEA, or statewide, that helps librarians or teachers.
[00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:06.940]  proactively know what they can do so it creates um a safety net for for librarians when they're
[00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:15.140]  picking a book if there's another committee that is is approving as well or um we we saw some
[00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:23.120]  different methods but making sure that um there's a method before this book gets in the school
[00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:31.800]  for that follow-up in october we searched through 42 secondary schools online school catalogs
[00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:36.620]  throughout seven different districts we visited eight different school libraries to confirm that
[00:25:36.620 --> 00:25:43.220]  the books we found on their catalogs were actually in the schools and then our team read in full 22
[00:25:43.220 --> 00:25:49.840]  books that we did find that were considered to be questionable i just want to jump in really quick
[00:25:49.840 --> 00:25:55.040]  and reiterate when we read these books we were reading them for this specific language in the
[00:25:55.040 --> 00:26:00.520]  statute of objective standards we reviewed any book that came up in our random review
[00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:08.100]  and we didn't look for literary merit or excuse me any of the any of the potential
[00:26:08.100 --> 00:26:15.820]  factors outside of that statute thanks yep um and to that point when we talk about sexual
[00:26:15.820 --> 00:26:21.960]  conduct and nudity we were looking for the words that are specifically defined in statute and you
[00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:28.100]  can see those on your screen and we found 153 counts of those instances within the 22 books
[00:26:28.100 --> 00:26:32.700]  and to be clear those were not images they were words that were typed on the page that described
[00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:38.380]  the acts and there was same thing with nudity it was words describing nudity and then even though
[00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:45.460]  it's not in code just to give a more robust review of the books we did count f words and c words and
[00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:51.740]  domestic violence and found 800 counts of language and 112 counts of domestic violence in those 22
[00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:57.800]  books. So that brings us to those relevant recommendations from the June audit, which is
[00:26:57.800 --> 00:27:03.640]  that what Leah said, that the legislature could consider the policy question of having library
[00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:09.180]  book selection processes that are more sort of throughout the state so that everyone has sort
[00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:14.840]  of the same opportunity to choose books safely for students. And that goes for classroom libraries
[00:27:14.840 --> 00:27:22.460]  as well and if you have any questions we'll be happy to address them all right
[00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:26.780]  we do have we do have some lights here so we'll start with represent box here
[00:27:26.780 --> 00:27:31.580]  thank you mr. chair one of the things that I know has been heavily focused on
[00:27:31.580 --> 00:27:35.420]  is how to be proactive in selecting rather than trying to get the books off
[00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:39.460]  later as I've been in the schools and talking many of the librarians are like
[00:27:39.460 --> 00:27:43.640]  we just ordered this box of books and it's just a collection and we don't have
[00:27:43.640 --> 00:27:50.520]  any say over what's in it and so part of what i have been saying is just because they come in
[00:27:50.520 --> 00:27:55.240]  doesn't necessarily mean you need to put them on your shelves but did you look at that at all as
[00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:00.840]  maybe a different way that we can order books so they're not just being selected from publishers
[00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:07.240]  who you know put whatever they want in it but letting the schools choose themselves it might
[00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:12.520]  be more expensive that way than a combined set as well but i was just wondering if that was anything
[00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:21.260]  that had been touched upon no we we heard about that process but we didn't look into um whether
[00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:28.000]  it would be possible to go outside that process no okay thank you thank you representative we'll
[00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:35.740]  go to uh senator reby thank you mr chair um thank you for your work on this we appreciate it
[00:28:35.740 --> 00:28:41.540]  tremendously i know all of us want our kids to be safe and have access to materials that expand
[00:28:41.540 --> 00:28:53.440]  their minds, but also build empathy. I'm curious how we are creating guardrails that are preventing
[00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:59.640]  us from taking every book off the shelf the minute somebody says something, because that's what I'm
[00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:05.220]  hearing. I believe in this process. I believe this process should be followed. I believe this process
[00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:07.380]  is something that we've all agreed upon,
[00:29:07.560 --> 00:29:13.360]  but I am hearing that there are aggressive movements
[00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:16.220]  to take books off the shelf before they've gone through the process.
[00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:22.800]  I've read a lot of these books, and I can understand some of them,
[00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:29.840]  but, you know, right now we have some of the highest rates
[00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:31.940]  of sexual assault in the nation in Utah.
[00:29:32.420 --> 00:29:34.560]  We have a high rate of suicide in Utah.
[00:29:35.100 --> 00:29:44.460]  And you can't stop and help if you're not educated. And so understanding what it looks like
[00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:50.220]  and what it sounds like and how it's perpetrated on people is important. So some of these books
[00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:55.520]  have been brought off the shelf prematurely. And I'm wondering how we can maintain the
[00:29:55.520 --> 00:30:00.000]  integrity of the process, because I do believe in the process, but I don't want it used
[00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:09.380]  served well um as excuse me librarians in schools are not supposed to take the books off of the
[00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:17.500]  shelf and um until it starts a challenge process so as soon as someone submits an official challenge
[00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:23.500]  that book is supposed to come off the shelves that's the statute um if it's if it hasn't been
[00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:31.680]  challenged i don't think in our first audit i don't think that we we found that that was happening
[00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:37.500]  in the school in the districts that we had looked at um but that's not to say that they were that
[00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:46.160]  it doesn't happen in other districts i think in in in our opinion that it's a pretty new process
[00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:55.160]  it just passed in 2020 2024 and so there's an education element and and just maybe giving
[00:30:55.160 --> 00:31:01.880]  districts time to make sure that it's filtered down and to train on that may i have one follow-up
[00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:08.860]  yes so to be clear when does the book come off the shelf when does the book come out of the
[00:31:08.860 --> 00:31:14.460]  classroom when are we like when is that teacher supposed to be like pulling it off the shelf
[00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:16.220]  because this is not what I've heard.
[00:31:16.320 --> 00:31:18.280]  I've heard that in the middle of a lesson,
[00:31:18.580 --> 00:31:19.980]  in the middle of a chapter,
[00:31:20.260 --> 00:31:22.520]  it's like shut it down, grab them off from the kids.
[00:31:22.780 --> 00:31:23.660]  I mean, I'm not kidding.
[00:31:23.780 --> 00:31:25.760]  And that seems not okay to me.
[00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.220]  So what Leah said about when the challenge is initiated,
[00:31:31.540 --> 00:31:34.140]  we had an instance that we talk about in the audit
[00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:35.080]  where that did happen,
[00:31:35.260 --> 00:31:37.580]  where it was being taught in the middle of a unit
[00:31:37.580 --> 00:31:39.060]  and it was removed in the middle of the unit.
[00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:41.360]  There is nothing in statute
[00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:43.940]  that allows them to complete the unit or the teaching
[00:31:43.940 --> 00:31:46.460]  if the challenge comes through while it's being taught.
[00:31:46.560 --> 00:31:48.420]  It does have to be removed immediately.
[00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:49.740]  So what does the challenge look like, though?
[00:31:50.060 --> 00:31:51.500]  It depends on the district.
[00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:55.620]  Each has their own process within statute and within administrative rule,
[00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:57.720]  but typically if a challenge is received
[00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:00.840]  and the district deems it to be an appropriate challenge
[00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:02.220]  that needs to go through the process,
[00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:07.040]  that's when the district would alert each individual school administrator,
[00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.320]  and then the books are typically removed.
[00:32:10.020 --> 00:32:10.400]  Thank you.
[00:32:11.660 --> 00:32:12.740]  Thank you, Senator.
[00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:13.820]  Representative Moss.
[00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:23.000]  thank thank you Mr. Chair um I just want to know that as a teacher of literature and writing for
[00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:30.380]  33 years in fact at least two of my former students are in the audience today um this
[00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:36.280]  whole this whole system of sensitive materials has been very unsettling to me and let me just
[00:32:36.280 --> 00:32:46.000]  tell you two things that ask you a question. First of all, all 19 of those books that are
[00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:51.520]  apparently in school libraries and not allowed to be, not one of them is taught. They're not
[00:32:51.520 --> 00:32:59.360]  literary books that are taught in the classroom. So is there any distinction that you can see?
[00:32:59.360 --> 00:33:05.780]  Did you see books that, I mean, could you see that in your audit? Oh, my second question is this.
[00:33:06.280 --> 00:33:13.840]  have they even been checked out? Do librarians have, can they speak to that? Because I've heard
[00:33:13.840 --> 00:33:19.260]  from various librarians saying, well, I looked for that book after they challenged it and said
[00:33:19.260 --> 00:33:27.260]  it was to be removed. No one had ever even read it. So is there any, I guess what I'm looking for
[00:33:27.260 --> 00:33:34.420]  is to know if librarians have any protection. Because in our early stages of this, there were
[00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:38.920]  people saying that if a librarian didn't take a book immediately off the shelf she should be
[00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:45.800]  arrested to call the police so do you see any kind of protection for librarians or how did they what
[00:33:45.800 --> 00:33:51.360]  is their expect what is our expectation for them to do just take the book off the shelf it's there
[00:33:51.360 --> 00:33:56.580]  and then what throw it away what do they do with it in chapter two of the audit we actually address
[00:33:56.580 --> 00:34:01.540]  exactly that because we had librarians express to us their nervousness and their fear around
[00:34:01.540 --> 00:34:07.320]  being unaware of the process or doing the process incorrectly and i think that's perhaps what sort
[00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:12.820]  of drove our initial interest in creating a process at the front end of books being put
[00:34:12.820 --> 00:34:20.780]  into the libraries because we want librarians and students to be protected so i think when we spoke
[00:34:20.780 --> 00:34:24.820]  with the librarians and they expressed that to us we you're correct that they did tell us those
[00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:30.820]  things um about their their fear and their worries are at the way that the law is written right now
[00:34:30.820 --> 00:34:37.240]  there is not any like punitive action against librarians they just have to remove the book
[00:34:37.240 --> 00:34:41.920]  when it's challenged regardless of whether it's ever been checked out regardless of whether it's
[00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:48.220]  ever been used or taught in a classroom it just and there was some that were being taught
[00:34:48.220 --> 00:34:52.300]  only the one that we talked about in the audit but other than that you're correct they're just
[00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:56.640]  books that were in the libraries okay thank you could ask a follow-up please yes i'll just note
[00:34:56.640 --> 00:35:00.000]  we do have 12 items on our agenda today so thank you i realize this is
[00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:08.100]  a very sensitive one if you that's okay go ahead represent moss okay did you find did you find in
[00:35:08.100 --> 00:35:16.300]  your audit books that are in the curriculum as being separate see now i'm hearing of challenges
[00:35:16.300 --> 00:35:22.920]  i know one specifically a board member challenged a novel that someone was teaching in a high school
[00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:29.660]  in an ap class and just because it was challenged that teacher couldn't teach the book but it's not
[00:35:29.660 --> 00:35:36.940]  a library book per se so how does that fit into this i've never seen how i didn't ever think this
[00:35:36.940 --> 00:35:42.940]  was intended the sensitive materials to go after books that have already been approved and have
[00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:50.520]  been taught in ap or ib classes for years um if i can respond this yes please go ahead thank you
[00:35:50.520 --> 00:35:59.000]  the statute the statute talks about instructional materials and so that's any if i'm correct that's
[00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:06.420]  any library book that's any book taught in the classroom it's things online um so so yeah there
[00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:12.180]  is no differentiation between those two in the in the statute okay thank you thank you for your work
[00:36:12.180 --> 00:36:17.700]  um i don't envy you what you did just reading that law itself and the language is creepy enough
[00:36:17.700 --> 00:36:23.580]  i think you have to find look for those things is unsettling at the very least thank you
[00:36:23.580 --> 00:36:29.140]  all right thank you representative moss uh i don't uh representative thompson
[00:36:29.140 --> 00:36:38.200]  sorry it's coming i just have a question um number one i don't understand why this issue
[00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:44.440]  is even a political issue i just i just i i like i i don't even i just don't understand
[00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:48.260]  um that's number one number two prior to the statue could a librarian
[00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:51.280]  put a playboy magazine on the shelf prior to the statue
[00:36:51.280 --> 00:37:01.560]  that would have been at the lea levels decision so but but according to state law i mean according
[00:37:01.560 --> 00:37:09.280]  to state law at the statute level theoretically that would be correct yes okay so it seems
[00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.640]  perfectly reasonable to me that we would be doing deep dives that we'd be looking into this
[00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:21.140]  and that we would be having some kind of common sense and reasonable protections for
[00:37:21.140 --> 00:37:26.640]  are most vulnerable, our students, and making sure that parents are most involved with their
[00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:29.600]  kids. And I'm sorry to make a political statement. We're politicians, so we just sit here and like
[00:37:29.600 --> 00:37:34.600]  to listen to ourselves talk. But I just don't understand how this is even a political issue.
[00:37:34.700 --> 00:37:40.120]  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much. I don't have any more questions from the committee.
[00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:46.360]  Thank you to our legislative auditor general staff. We're going to provide a little time to
[00:37:46.360 --> 00:38:00.100]  the Utah State Board of Education for a response so thank you for being here
[00:38:00.100 --> 00:38:04.340]  please introduce yourself and we appreciate you we appreciate you being
[00:38:04.340 --> 00:38:08.000]  here today thank you mr. chair and members of the committee I'll introduce
[00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.400]  myself as deputy superintendent is getting set up I'm dr. Amanda Bollinger
[00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:17.580]  Vice Chair of the State Board of Education. I also represent District 9, which is the southwest
[00:38:17.580 --> 00:38:25.160]  corner of the Salt Lake Valley. Thank you, and I am Deputy Superintendent of Policy at the Utah
[00:38:25.160 --> 00:38:30.980]  State Board of Education, Elise Newey, and thank you for having us. First, as we start, I want to
[00:38:30.980 --> 00:38:37.820]  just be very clear that as a state board, we absolutely want to make sure that we do not have
[00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:42.820]  inappropriate or pornographic materials in our schools or our libraries. To Representative
[00:38:42.820 --> 00:38:48.240]  Thompson's point, this for us is a unified mission, right? That we want to make sure that
[00:38:48.240 --> 00:38:52.700]  we have appropriate materials. So I just want to start off by being clear on that. We know you have
[00:38:52.700 --> 00:38:57.340]  a packed agenda, so we're going to be just really quick, as quick as we can. We just want to start
[00:38:57.340 --> 00:39:02.380]  off by reviewing what the current process is. So you've spent a lot of time creating code,
[00:39:02.660 --> 00:39:05.920]  and we've also put that into rules. We want to make sure that everybody understands what that
[00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:11.340]  looks like, just as a broad overview. And then we want to address some of the key recommendations
[00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:16.440]  and findings that were in the audits. And I do want to make clear that the recommendations from
[00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:21.520]  the library audit are the same ones that match into sensitive materials. So when we talk about
[00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:25.800]  them in one, it's because they do overlap. So just to help you understand that. And then we
[00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:30.980]  want to just explain some next steps that we would like to take. So I'm going to time the time over
[00:39:30.980 --> 00:39:33.360]  to W. Superintendent Nui to talk about the process.
[00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.280]  Fabulous. Thank you.
[00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:36.960]  So we wanted to make sure that, as we heard,
[00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.320]  there were some questions on the process
[00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.560]  and when exactly different parts of the law go into effect
[00:39:41.560 --> 00:39:42.720]  and when those are triggered.
[00:39:43.140 --> 00:39:44.920]  So we thought it would be helpful to go through the process.
[00:39:45.140 --> 00:39:48.860]  So every process actually begins at the LEA level with a policy.
[00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:52.860]  So in law, in our administrative rule, R277628,
[00:39:53.620 --> 00:39:56.680]  it requires that every LEA have a policy,
[00:39:56.900 --> 00:40:00.000]  not only for the reconsideration of materials,
[00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.980]  but the selection of materials.
[00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:06.880]  So actually every LEA at this point is required to have a policy on both the selection and
[00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.160]  the reconsideration of all instructional materials.
[00:40:09.720 --> 00:40:13.640]  And as Representative Moss brought up, that covers actually all materials.
[00:40:13.780 --> 00:40:18.740]  So that's anything from materials being used in classroom instruction to school libraries,
[00:40:19.020 --> 00:40:22.180]  to classroom libraries, to also digital resources.
[00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:24.800]  So this policy needs to cover all of that.
[00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:26.680]  And that's where this process begins.
[00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:34.740]  When a book is or a material is challenged, that goes immediately, that first box, is
[00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:38.000]  there a plausible claim that the material could be sensitive?
[00:40:38.220 --> 00:40:40.980]  If that's the case, that's when the material is pulled.
[00:40:41.120 --> 00:40:46.060]  So if it's found to have a plausible claim and then it goes through the rest of the processes
[00:40:46.060 --> 00:40:48.800]  outlined both in law and in the LEA policy.
[00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:54.620]  So that first step is the objective sensitive materials review that goes through that legal
[00:40:54.620 --> 00:40:56.800]  steps and those thresholds.
[00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:02.800]  of what exactly is being depicted, um, in the material. If it's found to be objectively,
[00:41:03.220 --> 00:41:08.440]  um, to meet that threshold of objective sensitive material that is removed indefinitely at that
[00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.580]  point and reported up to the state board of education. If it's not found to meet that
[00:41:13.580 --> 00:41:18.040]  threshold of objective sensitive materials, it goes through a secondary review. And that's where
[00:41:18.040 --> 00:41:22.780]  that community, um, review process really comes into place. And that's where it's kind of the
[00:41:22.780 --> 00:41:27.920]  balancing test of what is included in this book similar to the review done by the audit but with
[00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:33.800]  an additional consideration of is there some sort of merit to this like um senator rebe was speaking
[00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:39.960]  to um once it goes through that process if it's found to be um removed it would be removed from
[00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:45.660]  the appropriate places and additionally reported to usbe so at that point we're gathering all the
[00:41:45.660 --> 00:41:50.720]  information now there's kind of a lot of nuance to some of these especially that subjective test
[00:41:50.720 --> 00:41:56.940]  So as the audit pointed out, there are many resources available to LEAs.
[00:41:57.020 --> 00:41:59.100]  We wanted just to show you some of those right now.
[00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:04.360]  These are resources that are available on our website to all LEAs and to the public.
[00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:10.220]  It includes a really helpful checklist that goes through those same steps, but in a checklist
[00:42:10.220 --> 00:42:10.700]  format.
[00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:16.760]  So there you can see in that first step, the initial review is when that book gets removed.
[00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:21.720]  and that's clear is does it meet the correct standing, I guess, of the person making the
[00:42:21.720 --> 00:42:27.280]  allegation? And then is that initial determination made? Then the book gets removed and you move on
[00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:34.120]  to step two. There's additional support with understanding the law. What are these thresholds?
[00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:39.840]  And then what does that reporting process look like to ensure that there's fidelity and integrity
[00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:44.840]  in reporting anything that happens at the LEA level to the state so that we have a good understanding
[00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.920]  of what is going on at the LEA level and how we can support them.
[00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:56.960]  Once things get reported, we have an ongoing list on our website that our library media
[00:42:56.960 --> 00:42:58.300]  specialist counts.
[00:42:58.460 --> 00:43:02.420]  And so this is available to all of the public on the USBE website.
[00:43:02.860 --> 00:43:09.200]  You'll see that when this law was finalized and put into action in August of 2024, we
[00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:14.040]  had a list of all of the books that were kind of waiting in queue.
[00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:19.080]  And then we've had about one book every two or three months since then.
[00:43:19.160 --> 00:43:23.780]  So you can see that the process is moving and it is doing what it is intended.
[00:43:24.220 --> 00:43:29.220]  But we're hoping today that we can share some ideas with you about some of the pain points
[00:43:29.220 --> 00:43:34.340]  that we see in the process, as the audit pointed out, and how we can support our LEAs in improving
[00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:35.100]  the process.
[00:43:36.020 --> 00:43:38.920]  And I apologize for my technical difficulties.
[00:43:41.560 --> 00:43:43.360]  Maybe if I'm really gentle.
[00:43:44.840 --> 00:44:00.080]  we'll see maybe not these slides are also in the backup materials for this
[00:44:00.080 --> 00:44:05.620]  meeting so if you need to pull them up separately or look at them later oh
[00:44:05.620 --> 00:44:10.660]  thank you good so the first finding I know I'm not gonna breathe the first
[00:44:10.660 --> 00:44:16.540]  finding from the audit was that about the keyword filtering. And this is incredibly important to the
[00:44:16.540 --> 00:44:22.880]  board. And we would love to continue to collaborate with this body in ensuring that sensitive materials
[00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:29.320]  and content filtering is adequately covered in our LEAs. We do, however, want to point out that
[00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:33.520]  data privacy is also really important. And that's something that's really mattered to this body as
[00:44:33.520 --> 00:44:38.580]  well. We want to ensure that anything that we do in the sensitive materials area in regards to
[00:44:38.580 --> 00:44:44.040]  content filtering also just build up our data privacy systems as well we want
[00:44:44.040 --> 00:44:50.680]  both of those to be considered in tandem to ensure that making rules or laws in
[00:44:50.680 --> 00:44:54.240]  one area doesn't come at the expense of the other we want both data privacy and
[00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:58.740]  sensitive materials considerations to be incredibly robust in LA level so we'd
[00:44:58.740 --> 00:45:00.000]  love to continue to have conversations
[00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:07.460]  about that with this body. All right, so the second audit finding was that local education
[00:45:07.460 --> 00:45:12.760]  agencies are mostly adhering to the sensitive materials statute, as you heard from the auditors.
[00:45:13.240 --> 00:45:17.540]  And the recommendation on this one actually overlaps to both audits, and that is that the
[00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:21.720]  legislature can consider the policy question of whether to require LEAs to have a policy for
[00:45:21.720 --> 00:45:26.980]  library book selection processes. And I do want to note, like Deputy Superintendent Newey just
[00:45:26.980 --> 00:45:35.700]  mentioned in r277628 there is already a requirement uh in our state rule that leas have instructional
[00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:40.420]  materials that cover all classroom includes classroom materials but that we need to make
[00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:47.060]  sure that it also covers the the library selection process with that and we want to make sure that
[00:45:48.660 --> 00:45:53.380]  everybody is following those those policies so there are a few options when we say tier one tier
[00:45:53.380 --> 00:45:58.820]  to tier three, we want to collaborate with you and make sure that we are working together
[00:45:58.820 --> 00:46:02.720]  to make sure that this law is being followed.
[00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:08.760]  I did have an opportunity to connect with the representative Ivory, who was a sponsor
[00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:13.260]  of the original sense of materials bill to figure out, you know, what are our next steps?
[00:46:13.260 --> 00:46:19.400]  And so in talking with him and there didn't seem to really be an appetite for necessarily
[00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:26.120]  additional legislation unless there was a specific need, but that we would be looking at other options
[00:46:26.120 --> 00:46:29.420]  or opportunities to ensure that everybody understands what that rule is and make sure
[00:46:29.420 --> 00:46:32.880]  everybody's accountable for that. And so we'll kind of talk about some of those things. I just
[00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.820]  wanted to kind of preface that with that statement. But with this, with these options to address this,
[00:46:37.820 --> 00:46:43.280]  to make sure that they're adhering to it is one option would be to make sure that the current
[00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:48.000]  policies are in place. So that's already in our rule, but just to make sure that there's a little
[00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.100]  bit more oversight. That's actually one of the things that we're working on as a state board in
[00:46:51.100 --> 00:46:54.680]  our strategic plan is our oversight and accountability, which falls right into this.
[00:46:55.120 --> 00:47:02.780]  Another option is to have a possibly a legislative statute that requires a minimum professional
[00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:08.060]  standard be defined. Now, the interesting thing about this is that any LEA or school that has
[00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:13.560]  a licensed librarian, they are already held accountable to these standards. But there are
[00:47:13.560 --> 00:47:20.620]  several LEAs, individual schools that don't have licensed librarians in their schools. And so being
[00:47:20.620 --> 00:47:25.860]  clear on who's responsible for that, that does provide a gap, which Deputy Superintendent Newey
[00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:32.360]  will address in a moment of a gap in training for those individuals. And another option would be to
[00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:37.380]  create a single state approved standard for books that might be like a unified rubric, or making
[00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:41.180]  sure that everybody's very clear on what's appropriate, what's not appropriate for that. So
[00:47:41.180 --> 00:47:48.520]  some options there. And then the third finding from the audit was that there are just not enough
[00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:54.960]  policies guiding classroom libraries and that those individuals who are in schools may or may
[00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.880]  not totally understand the policies that do exist. So we had a few ideas for how we could
[00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:06.160]  improve this process and ensure that all of our staff understand the policies that exist.
[00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:13.220]  And so one option and that kind of entry level option would be that USBE does kind of a
[00:48:13.220 --> 00:48:18.740]  unofficial audit of the current policies that govern classroom library book selection and
[00:48:18.740 --> 00:48:20.060]  reconsideration in LEA.
[00:48:20.160 --> 00:48:23.720]  So what do those policies that are already required, but what do they actually look like?
[00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:24.020]  Right.
[00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.800]  Again, the legislature could statutorily require that LEAs adopt a specific and explicit
[00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:36.800]  classroom selection policy and that there be some of those same professional standards.
[00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.300]  And then again, we could have a statewide policy for those classroom selections.
[00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:51.800]  But in looking at all of these findings holistically, we have two major policy ideas that we think
[00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:56.360]  would really enhance this process and ensure that there is fidelity and integrity to the
[00:48:56.360 --> 00:48:57.780]  law as it already exists.
[00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:01.160]  The first would be to increase our training.
[00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:05.900]  As the audit pointed out, there are fabulous individuals in our schools who want to do
[00:49:05.900 --> 00:49:11.540]  write by kids but many of them are uncertain of what the law actually says so we would suggest
[00:49:11.540 --> 00:49:18.680]  that there be an annual training required and this would be for our qualified librarians as
[00:49:18.680 --> 00:49:23.540]  well as our parent volunteers who are in those libraries or paraprofessionals whoever it is that
[00:49:23.540 --> 00:49:29.000]  staffing the library or making those selection choices that they really feel confident in their
[00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:37.280]  decision making. So that's one idea. The second idea would be to have some sort of check on the
[00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:43.540]  policies as they are being created and implemented in LEA. So as we pointed out, these policies are
[00:49:43.540 --> 00:49:49.220]  required, but there's no check system to ensure that there is fidelity to the law. So we would
[00:49:49.220 --> 00:49:56.940]  suggest that potentially the LEA's final policies be run through USBE and be certified for compliance,
[00:49:56.940 --> 00:49:58.000]  not only with law
[00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:58.940]  but best practice
[00:49:58.940 --> 00:50:00.000]  because we do want to keep
[00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.640]  these um inappropriate materials out of our kids hands but we also want to be giving them the very
[00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:09.680]  best most enriching materials that are out there so we want to not only protect against the bad
[00:50:09.680 --> 00:50:16.340]  but also increase the good and so this would help all of our librarians and all of our leas reach
[00:50:16.340 --> 00:50:23.420]  that standard so just to wrap this up there's really two approaches to this that we need to
[00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:27.880]  look at and i said at the very beginning of the presentation about i said oh looks like we kind
[00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:31.820]  of planned this with the auditors, but we really didn't. There's really the reactive and the
[00:50:31.820 --> 00:50:37.480]  proactive side. So on this reactive side, we still have potentially books because we have tens of
[00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:41.940]  thousands and hundreds of thousands across the state of books in libraries, where it still does
[00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:48.160]  continue to take a process to remove any materials that are in violation of the law.
[00:50:48.600 --> 00:50:52.640]  It's interesting, as I worked in education for 25 years, I said, as a principal, I felt like I was
[00:50:52.640 --> 00:50:56.780]  in a speedboat. I could make things happen and change very quickly. At a district level, you're
[00:50:56.780 --> 00:51:02.080]  in a cruise ship where it's slow, even though you have an itinerary. At a state level, it is like
[00:51:02.080 --> 00:51:06.440]  being on a barge. We want it to be a speedboat. It never goes as fast as we want it to, but there
[00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:11.820]  are definitely some policies and processes in place that are happening. And as books hit that
[00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:16.120]  threshold, they are coming to the state board. So just wanted to mention that. So we still have to
[00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:19.460]  make sure that we're addressing these books that we would consider what they say legacy books that
[00:51:19.460 --> 00:51:25.400]  have been in place before this law even was implemented. But then on the proactive side,
[00:51:25.660 --> 00:51:29.880]  What can we do to look at how library books are getting into our library?
[00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:34.240]  Like Representative Oxy had mentioned, sometimes the companies we're buying books from, it
[00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:35.000]  comes in bulk.
[00:51:35.520 --> 00:51:39.360]  And one librarian or a parent educator or a parent volunteer that's helping run the
[00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.520]  library may not have the capacity to read every single book when it's hundreds or thousands
[00:51:43.520 --> 00:51:44.160]  of books.
[00:51:44.160 --> 00:51:46.640]  However, we need to make sure we're holding those companies accountable.
[00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:52.860]  In discussions with Representative Ivory, there are a lot of new tools and resources
[00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:59.840]  that are going to and are available recently with the use of AI to look at what books can
[00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:01.740]  be screened using some tools like that.
[00:52:01.900 --> 00:52:08.220]  I know I met with a local LEA in my area recently that has been looking into what some of those
[00:52:08.220 --> 00:52:12.960]  tools are to help support them in their process of looking at how we're getting books into
[00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:13.520]  the library.
[00:52:13.520 --> 00:52:19.220]  In addition to that, adding our monitoring and accountability, which aligns with our
[00:52:19.220 --> 00:52:24.420]  strategic plan, and focusing on that training is one of those proactive approaches that we can make
[00:52:24.420 --> 00:52:29.620]  sure that everybody understands what the law is and make sure that we are there to support them.
[00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:37.420]  In closing, I just want to just reiterate that USBE is committed to ensuring that we are supporting
[00:52:37.420 --> 00:52:42.940]  books that coming into the library are not only complying with the law, but they are wholesome,
[00:52:43.180 --> 00:52:48.680]  entertaining, and tied to educational objectives. And like Representative Ivory had mentioned,
[00:52:48.680 --> 00:52:55.740]  If we had a magic wand, it would be to say how close to excellent can we get in the materials we're providing for our students.
[00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:57.960]  And that concludes our presentation.
[00:52:58.700 --> 00:53:02.900]  Thank you, Vice Chair Bollinger, and thank you, Deputy Superintendent Newey.
[00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:09.060]  Appreciate the time and also the resources that you're providing to LEAs to help navigate the sensitive materials.
[00:53:09.160 --> 00:53:12.840]  I do have a couple of questions, and so we'll begin with Representative Moss.
[00:53:13.900 --> 00:53:15.120]  Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[00:53:15.120 --> 00:53:22.860]  um i recently attended the utah state school library association conference here in utah and
[00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:29.880]  one of the presenters who's a very well-known author of children's books gave a presentation
[00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:36.500]  that was just startling it covered it it had statistics not only for utah but around the
[00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:42.940]  country how few certified school librarians there are i was sitting at a table that had
[00:53:42.940 --> 00:53:51.140]  a woman who's the part-time at Ogden High School, part-time, they hire two part-time people so they
[00:53:51.140 --> 00:53:58.480]  don't have to pay benefits. Others from Vernal, they were certified, but there are not certified
[00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:04.340]  librarians in every school, and who would want to be one today, in fact? But I just wanted to
[00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:10.060]  reiterate that so folks know that this is a challenge for people that are basically parent
[00:54:10.060 --> 00:54:15.300]  volunteers or maybe they're aides that get paid very little to do this. And the second question I
[00:54:15.300 --> 00:54:21.460]  have is, how long, I'll tell you why I'm asking it, but first I'll say, how long should a challenge
[00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:26.440]  last? For example, a book that's in the classroom, like I said, has been taught in an AP class
[00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:33.400]  and gets challenged by one board member, and that book cannot be taught. The teacher finds out a day
[00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:39.620]  before, something she's taught for years and years, and it's, you know, one of the AP books
[00:54:39.620 --> 00:54:46.600]  that is most likely to get the highest score. Teachers plan curriculum a year ahead, two years
[00:54:46.600 --> 00:54:52.340]  ahead. So obviously they can pick another book, but what are they supposed to do? I mean, those
[00:54:52.340 --> 00:55:00.000]  challenges can go on for a year, and I think that's inappropriate and unfair to teachers. Thank you
[00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:05.180]  for that question and I will say I have seen that actually happened this year in a district in my
[00:55:05.180 --> 00:55:10.460]  area that I cover and I will tell you that the LEA was committed to doing the process as quickly as
[00:55:10.460 --> 00:55:15.900]  going through the process as quickly as possible and it ended up being challenged pulled from all
[00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:20.020]  the shelves from the classroom somewhere in the middle of teaching that so they had to move on to
[00:55:20.020 --> 00:55:25.500]  another unit the process also included a secondary review and it ended up going back through the
[00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:29.460]  local school board so it was aligned with the school board so it did take a couple months but
[00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:36.360]  it did end up being put back into the classroom so again it depends on how the capacity of the LEA
[00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:41.320]  what to your point of do they have licensed librarians what does their committees look
[00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:45.460]  like how hard is it to get because parent volunteers are part of that process of looking
[00:55:45.460 --> 00:55:51.520]  at and reviewing those books so it depends on the capacity of the parents and the LEA so I would say
[00:55:51.520 --> 00:55:56.060]  I wish I had a better answer for you Representative Moss but it really does depend on the capacity of
[00:55:56.060 --> 00:56:06.060]  lea thank you thank you representative moss senator eby and thank you mr chair um i have
[00:56:06.060 --> 00:56:10.460]  on the state school board i actually try to champion librarians in our schools and trying
[00:56:10.460 --> 00:56:15.340]  to bring more of them into our schools because i do understand how important information is
[00:56:15.340 --> 00:56:22.300]  and how powerful it is um but you know due process should be timely and to representative moss's
[00:56:22.300 --> 00:56:30.800]  point this is a tool that has been used against our schools almost to create this burdensome
[00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:35.780]  process so that we can pull more books off our shelf without any due process so that that's
[00:56:35.780 --> 00:56:40.880]  frustrating to me another thing that's been brought up to me by numerous superintendents
[00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:48.720]  across the whole entire state is that this is not funded this is so much time money energy that's
[00:56:48.720 --> 00:56:54.560]  taken out of our classrooms, taken out of our other venues.
[00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:59.560]  And so I think that if we really believe that this process should be fair and timely,
[00:56:59.560 --> 00:57:01.380]  then we should be putting money behind it.
[00:57:01.820 --> 00:57:04.380]  And if we're not going to put money and funding behind it,
[00:57:04.720 --> 00:57:07.640]  then we should consider how important it really is to us.
[00:57:07.720 --> 00:57:11.300]  Because, you know, if you can't fund it, then I guess it's not that important.
[00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.940]  So I think we really need to start looking at funding this.
[00:57:14.500 --> 00:57:18.600]  The other part about this is we're asking volunteers and part-time people
[00:57:18.600 --> 00:57:21.080]  to be the people at the front line of this.
[00:57:21.780 --> 00:57:25.000]  This is really like, I've been to many school board meetings
[00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:28.760]  where elected school board members are attacked
[00:57:28.760 --> 00:57:32.420]  and argued with, and now we're asking librarians
[00:57:32.420 --> 00:57:35.140]  and volunteers and parents to be at the front line
[00:57:35.140 --> 00:57:39.640]  of these arguments where who would want to do that,
[00:57:39.740 --> 00:57:41.020]  to Representative Moss's point.
[00:57:41.160 --> 00:57:45.360]  So this process I believe in, but it has to be more robust.
[00:57:45.520 --> 00:57:46.520]  It has to be more thoughtful.
[00:57:46.740 --> 00:57:47.520]  It has to be funded.
[00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:58.380]  And if we really believe that we should have a great process through this, then let's start putting those paid people in place and fund it.
[00:57:58.500 --> 00:58:02.960]  So I believe in this, but we're not funding it.
[00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:10.200]  And it's making it really cumbersome and clunky, and it's to the detriment of our kids reading great literature sometimes.
[00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:10.840]  So thank you.
[00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:16.080]  Thank you, Senator Revy.
[00:58:16.980 --> 00:58:19.860]  Appreciate your sharing your thoughts.
[00:58:20.040 --> 00:58:21.700]  We're going to go to Representative Peterson.
[00:58:23.600 --> 00:58:24.080]  Thank you.
[00:58:24.080 --> 00:58:25.540]  Sorry, Representative Karen Peterson.
[00:58:25.540 --> 00:58:27.200]  I was like, was that right, Peterson?
[00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:28.520]  Thank you.
[00:58:29.160 --> 00:58:31.220]  I just maybe want to share a different perspective.
[00:58:32.700 --> 00:58:35.420]  You know, when I hear, you know, they were going to teach a book
[00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:37.220]  and they found out at the last minute they couldn't,
[00:58:37.240 --> 00:58:40.260]  or when the class started reading a book and they stopped partway through,
[00:58:41.020 --> 00:58:42.140]  I think that's great.
[00:58:42.660 --> 00:58:43.880]  I think that's good.
[00:58:44.080 --> 00:58:49.480]  I think there are so many wonderful pieces of literature our students can read.
[00:58:49.660 --> 00:58:50.320]  There's so many.
[00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:56.220]  And if we have a process that says, like, let's take a pause on this book because there
[00:58:56.220 --> 00:59:00.320]  are other books that have the same principles, that can teach the same concepts, that can
[00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:05.680]  expose students to new things they've never been exposed to, I'm grateful.
[00:59:05.680 --> 00:59:09.520]  I'm grateful that we have, you know, that opportunity.
[00:59:09.860 --> 00:59:14.880]  And our librarians and our volunteers and our part-time librarians are on the front line.
[00:59:15.140 --> 00:59:23.760]  And so there's an expectation when you're on the front line because we need them to be on the front line of being thoughtful about what comes into our schools.
[00:59:24.700 --> 00:59:35.460]  And so as someone who loves to read and someone who values literature so much, you know, it's not uncommon for me to start a book and partway through say, this one's not worth my time.
[00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:40.380]  and i think it's great for our schools to also teach kids that that's okay just because you start
[00:59:40.380 --> 00:59:44.820]  a book doesn't mean you need to finish the book if it's not doing something for you or if you
[00:59:44.820 --> 00:59:50.060]  run into content that makes you uncomfortable or doesn't match your values i i think that's okay
[00:59:50.060 --> 00:59:55.460]  and i think we all should learn that that's okay um so i i appreciate the work um i'm looking
[00:59:55.460 --> 01:00:00.000]  forward to having this conversation about the proactive piece i appreciate the board helping
[01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.400]  us think through how we can do some of that and I appreciate the work of our librarians in our
[01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:09.920]  schools because their expertise is really important both as they curate the current
[01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:14.760]  collection maybe it's they're taking books out of the library because no one's ever checked it out
[01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:19.180]  right and they want to replace that with a book that might be more engaging for students that are
[01:00:19.180 --> 01:00:23.380]  in the school now so I appreciate the work of our librarians and all of that and just wanted to add
[01:00:23.380 --> 01:00:28.500]  that perspective. Thank you. Thank you, Representative Peterson. Our final comment
[01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:36.720]  will be Representative Lizenby. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a question for the presenters.
[01:00:37.200 --> 01:00:43.000]  I'm just wondering, as we look forward, considering the comments that have been made,
[01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:49.920]  and we look into the future, do we anticipate that the process will smooth out over time?
[01:00:50.200 --> 01:00:57.640]  that, you know, some of these challenges that maybe have gone through the process and overturned
[01:00:57.640 --> 01:01:05.360]  and also some of the challenges where, you know, books have been found to violate the code are
[01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:13.240]  removed, like that over time smooths out in the process, isn't so disruptive maybe to a teacher
[01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:17.780]  in the classroom. Yeah, thank you for that question. And I would say yes, absolutely. It
[01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:21.840]  does take time for change. I mean, if we look at Noster's model of complex change, there are so
[01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:27.480]  many factors that are involved in that. And LEAs, as they've gone through the process, they're also
[01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:31.840]  figuring out what's working with their process, what's not, how to make their process quicker,
[01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:37.420]  to Senator Reeve's point. And I do think with time, they'll understand that, you know, we are
[01:01:37.420 --> 01:01:41.340]  serious in Utah about what is allowed in our schools, and they'll know that we have a clear
[01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:46.000]  line. And I do think with time, it will improve. Again, it's that whole idea of are we on a speed
[01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:50.140]  boat or a barge. And unfortunately at a state level, it does take a little bit longer, but
[01:01:50.140 --> 01:01:53.460]  hopefully at a school local level, our schools will start going a little faster.
[01:01:54.500 --> 01:02:00.780]  Thank you. Thank you, Representative Lisenby. Appreciate that question. Thank you to
[01:02:00.780 --> 01:02:07.140]  Vice Chair Bollinger. Thank you to Deputy Superintendent Nui for your response. I just
[01:02:07.140 --> 01:02:11.140]  want to provide two clarifications for the members of the committee. It would have been
[01:02:11.140 --> 01:02:18.300]  illegal to distribute porn to minors before the sensitive materials bill was passed and it is still
[01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:23.500]  illegal to distribute pornography to minors after the sensitive materials bill is passed
[01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:29.320]  the other thing i think is important clarification is librarians are not obligated to shelf any book
[01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:34.200]  they receive and librarians have the ability to remove any book that they feel like is inappropriate
[01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:40.300]  the interesting part is we're having a lot of disagreement about what that actually looks like
[01:02:40.300 --> 01:02:42.960]  and our legislation's helping us navigate through that.
[01:02:43.020 --> 01:02:44.580]  So appreciate the good work of the state board
[01:02:44.580 --> 01:02:46.320]  and also the members of this body
[01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:49.060]  who've been hearing this issue now for four years.
[01:02:49.820 --> 01:02:51.400]  So, all right, we're going to move on.
[01:02:51.460 --> 01:02:52.240]  We've got a number of items.
[01:02:52.340 --> 01:02:54.060]  Our first draft legislation
[01:02:54.060 --> 01:02:56.400]  is local education agency finance reporting.
[01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:59.700]  This bill was in response to the audit
[01:02:59.700 --> 01:03:03.040]  that was performed on Alpine School District
[01:03:03.040 --> 01:03:06.220]  where the auditors said that there was issues
[01:03:06.220 --> 01:03:11.040]  that were in reporting both wages and salaries
[01:03:11.040 --> 01:03:13.800]  and also titles for LEAs.
[01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:17.640]  And so we'll turn the time to our legislative associate,
[01:03:17.820 --> 01:03:19.660]  sorry, Associate General Counsel, Tyler Keech.
[01:03:22.540 --> 01:03:23.740]  Thank you, Chair Walter.
[01:03:24.200 --> 01:03:25.640]  Good morning to members of the committee.
[01:03:26.680 --> 01:03:28.720]  Like Charles said, my name is Tyler Keech,
[01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:30.060]  Associate General Counsel
[01:03:30.060 --> 01:03:32.260]  with Legislative Research and General Counsel.
[01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.720]  Just a quick disclaimer,
[01:03:35.060 --> 01:03:40.720]  We are a nonpartisan office, so we do not support or oppose legislation.
[01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:44.860]  Just here to present the legislation and answer any questions that minorize.
[01:03:46.020 --> 01:03:53.340]  So just like Chair Walter said, this committee was a committee file open in August in response to the performance audit of Alpine School District.
[01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:56.000]  And this bill does two main things.
[01:03:56.580 --> 01:04:04.920]  The first thing it does is it addresses recommendation 5.2 of the audit by requiring the use of common naming conventions.
[01:04:05.060 --> 01:04:12.780]  Common naming conventions are defined on line 26, and they require their use for all qualifying
[01:04:12.780 --> 01:04:19.680]  entities, which is another defined term on line 76, for all the compensation and payroll
[01:04:19.680 --> 01:04:22.200]  data posted to Transparent Utah.
[01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:28.400]  The state auditor is the entity that runs the public finance website, and they would
[01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:33.220]  be in charge of establishing and enforcing the common naming conventions required for
[01:04:33.220 --> 01:04:38.040]  use by the qualifying entities. So that's the first thing that this bill does. The
[01:04:38.040 --> 01:04:44.240]  second thing it does is specific to LEAs. So it clarifies that financial
[01:04:44.240 --> 01:04:48.620]  distributions to a third-party contractor who's not an employee of an
[01:04:48.620 --> 01:04:54.780]  LEA are not public financial information, which is another defined term, and are
[01:04:54.780 --> 01:05:00.000]  not required to be reported to Transparent Utah. I think that
[01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.320]  - That's pretty clear, I'm happy to answer any questions
[01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:05.380]  that the committee might have about the bill.
[01:05:05.380 --> 01:05:07.460]  - Okay, any clarifying questions
[01:05:07.460 --> 01:05:09.280]  from members of the committee?
[01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:11.220]  Okay, is there anybody here from the public
[01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:13.280]  to speak to this bill?
[01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:17.560]  All right, seeing no public comment,
[01:05:17.560 --> 01:05:21.980]  we'll go back to the committee for action.
[01:05:21.980 --> 01:05:24.340]  This is a committee bill file.
[01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:27.480]  Previously, we discussed having Representative Thompson
[01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.660]  be assigned to carry this bill,
[01:05:29.660 --> 01:05:31.700]  but at this time I'll turn to the committee
[01:05:31.700 --> 01:05:33.760]  for potential action items.
[01:05:41.860 --> 01:05:43.580]  All right, Representative Perucci.
[01:05:43.580 --> 01:05:45.060]  - Thank you, I'd just like to make the motion
[01:05:45.060 --> 01:05:46.740]  that we adopt this as a committee bill,
[01:05:46.740 --> 01:05:48.140]  appreciating the work that's gone into it
[01:05:48.140 --> 01:05:50.280]  and that it's assigned to Representative Thompson.
[01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:53.480]  - And are you making a motion to recommend favorably?
[01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:54.820]  - That's correct. - Okay.
[01:05:54.820 --> 01:05:57.640]  All right, so we have a motion from Representative Perucci
[01:05:57.640 --> 01:05:59.960]  to adopt this as a committee bill file,
[01:05:59.960 --> 01:06:04.240]  recommend favorably for the 2026 general session.
[01:06:04.240 --> 01:06:05.920]  Is there any discussion to that motion?
[01:06:08.200 --> 01:06:10.760]  Okay, seeing none, back to the maker.
[01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:11.680]  - I'll wave.
[01:06:11.680 --> 01:06:14.120]  - All right, we have a motion before us
[01:06:14.120 --> 01:06:17.140]  to recommend favorably local education agency
[01:06:17.140 --> 01:06:20.060]  financial reporting as a committee bill
[01:06:20.060 --> 01:06:21.560]  and have that recommended favorably
[01:06:21.560 --> 01:06:24.140]  for the 2026 legislative session.
[01:06:24.140 --> 01:06:25.320]  All in favor, please say aye.
[01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:26.160]  - Aye.
[01:06:26.160 --> 01:06:27.080]  - Aye.
[01:06:27.080 --> 01:06:31.160]  any opposed seeing none that passes excuse me
[01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:35.720]  senator fillmore i think we need your vote
[01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:46.760]  okay all right so that passes uh unanimously uh thank you everybody thank you for that uh
[01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:52.440]  appreciate that uh tyler all right we're gonna move to agenda night agenda item number five
[01:06:53.320 --> 01:07:00.200]  um this one is uh online education service provider funding and oversight uh this uh bill
[01:07:00.200 --> 01:07:08.120]  was in response to the uh open ed audit that was heard um uh this spring uh by this body i'm just
[01:07:08.120 --> 01:07:12.520]  going to note that we're going to have a bill presentation today we'll take public comment
[01:07:12.520 --> 01:07:19.480]  um i was the one that uh was uh uh taking taking responsibility for this bill because there's a
[01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:24.800]  number of moving pieces. We felt like that we ought to have the opportunity for additional time
[01:07:24.800 --> 01:07:29.340]  and feedback and let it run the regular process. It impacts a reasonably large number of students
[01:07:29.340 --> 01:07:36.020]  and some big impacts on some LEAs. So today the plan is to have our staff presentation, to have
[01:07:36.020 --> 01:07:43.400]  committee discussion, hear public comment, and then I would take possession of the bill and we'll
[01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:48.420]  run it through the regular session. So with that, we'll turn the time to Associate General Counsel
[01:07:48.420 --> 01:08:06.320]  Jeff VanHolten. Sorry Jeff let me get your... It's coming. There you go, you're on. I'm on. Perfect.
[01:08:07.100 --> 01:08:11.480]  Jeff VanHolten, Associate General Counsel, here for the Legislature Staffing Education Committee
[01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:16.920]  and as my colleague mentioned we're nonpartisan staffs we're here to present the concepts in the
[01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:20.120]  bill, but we do not support or oppose any legislation.
[01:08:20.120 --> 01:08:24.040]  I'm going to start at the bottom of this bill and kind of work backwards to explain the
[01:08:24.040 --> 01:08:29.440]  general concepts and just kind of dive a little bit deeper very quickly on what the audit
[01:08:29.440 --> 01:08:30.440]  was.
[01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:36.700]  So just as a reminder, the audit was regarding open online education services that are used
[01:08:36.700 --> 01:08:43.880]  by LEAs, and these are typically used by LEAs via a contract, and the contract is for students
[01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:49.880]  who are typically exclusively online who are not actually part of the LEA and its regular
[01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:53.740]  operations and its brick and mortar students.
[01:08:53.740 --> 01:09:00.360]  And these students are a portion of the state funding received is kept by the LEA.
[01:09:00.360 --> 01:09:05.520]  The rest is passed on to the online education service provider who actually provides the
[01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:08.640]  educational content and instruction to the student.
[01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:16.440]  if there is any funds remaining after the online education provider has given those educational
[01:09:16.440 --> 01:09:21.220]  services, the families of those students are allowed to use the remainder of the funding for
[01:09:21.220 --> 01:09:26.660]  certain purposes like physical education, extracurricular activities, and other things
[01:09:26.660 --> 01:09:32.200]  that are approved by the online education provider. The audit had four main findings
[01:09:32.200 --> 01:09:38.560]  to allow that to continue to do nothing. The second was to decrease the amount of funding
[01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:44.260]  the state gives to those particular students to allow the practice to continue.
[01:09:44.260 --> 01:09:48.740]  The third was to shift that to a statewide contract and have the state board run it rather
[01:09:48.740 --> 01:09:50.320]  than LEAs.
[01:09:50.320 --> 01:09:56.980]  And the fourth was to take this practice, prohibit it, enroll the existing online education
[01:09:56.980 --> 01:10:00.000]  providers and those students who are primarily homeschool students.
[01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:05.100]  over to the Utah fits all program the current bill before you is the fourth
[01:10:05.100 --> 01:10:10.100]  option moving this over into the Utah fits all program so you'll see at the
[01:10:10.100 --> 01:10:14.580]  bottom of this bill that the last section is actually kind of where we
[01:10:14.580 --> 01:10:19.440]  begin and we prohibit the practice of LEAs continuing to do this as their
[01:10:19.440 --> 01:10:24.960]  model it does give them a three-year phase-in so it would allow this practice
[01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:29.840]  essentially to continue through 2029 but it puts LEAs and the families on
[01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:33.780]  notice that they need to begin transitioning away from continuing to do
[01:10:33.780 --> 01:10:38.240]  this. If you scroll up into the first half of the bill that is where we
[01:10:38.240 --> 01:10:44.540]  transition over into the Utah fits all program. So once this is prohibited we
[01:10:44.540 --> 01:10:50.720]  would move this over into the Utah fits all program. It would be kind of a
[01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:54.620]  program within a program at this point because it currently Utah fits all does
[01:10:54.620 --> 01:10:58.700]  have eligibility criteria and requirements for students and some of
[01:10:58.700 --> 01:11:03.660]  of these students may not qualify under those current definitions so in order to
[01:11:03.660 --> 01:11:07.680]  not leave these families and students without an educational option that
[01:11:07.680 --> 01:11:11.180]  they're currently using we're creating kind of a separate program that would
[01:11:11.180 --> 01:11:15.440]  also be run by the program manager for Utah fits all to ensure that that
[01:11:15.440 --> 01:11:18.620]  practice continues and that there's continuity in the educational services
[01:11:18.620 --> 01:11:23.180]  for those students I'm happy to dive into the details of the bill those are
[01:11:23.180 --> 01:11:26.780]  the overarching concepts I can pass it back to the chair all right thank you
[01:11:26.780 --> 01:11:34.500]  the clarifying questions for our legislative attorney i've got senator reby thank you mr chair
[01:11:34.500 --> 01:11:44.960]  um when you say uh leftover funds from being online what is is it 99 left over is there a
[01:11:44.960 --> 01:11:50.340]  percentage of money that can be left over to use for something else like pe is there a threshold
[01:11:50.340 --> 01:11:55.860]  for that and what line number would that be uh that that was actually just explaining what is
[01:11:55.860 --> 01:12:00.600]  currently happening. Those numbers are actually in the audit that was presented in May. Typically,
[01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:04.920]  I believe the chart they had in the audit said there's usually about $2,000 left over,
[01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:10.260]  give or take, that the online education service provider then gives to the families for certain
[01:12:10.260 --> 01:12:15.440]  purposes. But there is a chart within the audit itself that was presented in May that kind of
[01:12:15.440 --> 01:12:20.780]  breaks down the state funding and how much is kept on average by the LEA, how much is given to the
[01:12:20.780 --> 01:12:25.320]  online education service provider, and then how much is left over and given to the families.
[01:12:25.860 --> 01:12:28.000]  May I have some follow-ups?
[01:12:28.180 --> 01:12:28.780]  Yep, that's right.
[01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:30.420]  And if you'd like, I just was going to comment.
[01:12:30.640 --> 01:12:35.420]  So just if you want to go back and look at it in the future, it's page 13 of the audit, the OpenEd audit.
[01:12:36.140 --> 01:12:46.220]  And what it shows is that the dollar amount that is remaining with the LEA is between $4,100 and $5,300.
[01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:48.020]  It's a substantial amount.
[01:12:48.660 --> 01:12:50.040]  Okay, so there's three parts.
[01:12:50.040 --> 01:12:53.800]  What stays with the LEA, what goes to OpenEd, and then what goes to the families.
[01:12:53.900 --> 01:12:57.100]  And that chart explains all of that in detail, if you'd like to reference that.
[01:12:57.540 --> 01:12:57.700]  Thank you.
[01:12:58.620 --> 01:13:04.480]  The second question I have is, you said primarily this is dealing with homeschools.
[01:13:04.900 --> 01:13:09.460]  And so this would not be dealing with people that are going to a private school, because
[01:13:09.460 --> 01:13:14.240]  I know that Utah Fits All deals with a lot of private schools who are also using online
[01:13:14.240 --> 01:13:15.020]  education.
[01:13:16.480 --> 01:13:17.000]  Correct.
[01:13:17.340 --> 01:13:23.660]  And the way that we handle the transition over to the Utah Fits All program, we do allow
[01:13:23.660 --> 01:13:28.500]  these students and families to opt into the full program and apply, but they would need to go
[01:13:28.500 --> 01:13:32.540]  through the regular application process if they want full access to the Utah Fitzall program,
[01:13:32.540 --> 01:13:37.900]  which would include scholarships for private schools. They're also allowed to continue to
[01:13:37.900 --> 01:13:41.940]  enroll in the LEA that they're currently considered enrolled with. It's bringing in
[01:13:41.940 --> 01:13:47.460]  that state funding for the model that's currently happening. So this separate
[01:13:47.460 --> 01:13:53.100]  program that we're kind of creating within Utah Fitzall that would guarantee that these students
[01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:57.940]  still have continuity of educational services would provide them a scholarship but it would
[01:13:57.940 --> 01:14:03.780]  be the homeschool level scholarship the same that is in Utah fits all and they would be required to
[01:14:03.780 --> 01:14:11.040]  continue using that fund those funds to continue their education with an educational service
[01:14:11.040 --> 01:14:14.960]  provider that has also been transitioned over to being a provider in the fits all program
[01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:23.100]  thank you my last question um go ahead thank you uh we currently are
[01:14:23.100 --> 01:14:33.320]  in the middle of a lawsuit with how utah fits all is um administered how would this
[01:14:33.320 --> 01:14:39.580]  alleviate some of those lawsuit concerns and is this still constitutional if it's going to be
[01:14:39.580 --> 01:14:44.940]  coming out of an income tax so all of this would be separate from what is currently before the
[01:14:44.940 --> 01:14:49.900]  courts and the legal questions that are being argued and appealed with the lawsuit regarding
[01:14:49.900 --> 01:14:55.500]  the Utah Fitzall Program. So this would not implicate anything with that lawsuit. It doesn't
[01:14:55.500 --> 01:14:59.980]  necessarily solve or create more issues with that lawsuit. It's kind of a separate thing from that.
[01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:00.720]  Thank you.
[01:15:01.080 --> 01:15:02.640]  All right, Representative Perucci.
[01:15:03.320 --> 01:15:03.980]  Thank you.
[01:15:04.200 --> 01:15:13.940]  This is a really big bill, a part of a bigger bill and a bigger process, I would say, as we look at school choice in our state.
[01:15:13.940 --> 01:15:29.540]  And I think everyone, if we go back to the committee meeting where we talked about open ed and how it's run, I believe it was Representative Lisenby who opened this bill, was the idea of are we making sure we're maximizing tax dollars and that we're being consistent.
[01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.640]  and I appreciate the delay in this.
[01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:36.540]  If you'll notice, there's a three-year phase in on this
[01:15:36.540 --> 01:15:40.540]  because right now I think we're still working on making sure Utah fits all
[01:15:40.540 --> 01:15:44.580]  is fully functional and responsive to parents and the needs of students,
[01:15:44.580 --> 01:15:47.320]  and we're doing our best on that, and there's a cleanup bill on that as well.
[01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:52.340]  But I just want to clarify that in this process,
[01:15:52.900 --> 01:15:57.300]  they would still be, should they go through OpenEd or Harmony, right,
[01:15:57.780 --> 01:16:01.320]  Those students, that would be a vendor that they would still be able to use.
[01:16:01.400 --> 01:16:04.160]  But if they go into the fits all, that's different.
[01:16:05.140 --> 01:16:08.300]  So to Jeff's point, it is a program within a program.
[01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:12.680]  But I appreciate the phase in because this would be almost doubling the amount of students
[01:16:12.680 --> 01:16:14.640]  that the program manager oversees right now.
[01:16:14.640 --> 01:16:19.060]  We have a little over 14,000 students on fits all, and this would add 12,000.
[01:16:19.220 --> 01:16:23.460]  So I think that getting this right, I appreciate the chair bringing it to the committee for discussion
[01:16:23.460 --> 01:16:27.500]  and continuing to work with us on it because I think getting this right is going to be really important
[01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:32.580]  to the success of both programs thank you representative we're going to go to uh senator
[01:16:32.580 --> 01:16:40.580]  fillmore online thank you uh mr chair i've heard some things that maybe are conflicting in my mind
[01:16:40.580 --> 01:16:46.780]  so i'd like some clarity i think that this bill says that a school district that offers an online
[01:16:46.780 --> 01:16:54.340]  program cannot use a third-party vendor for that online program is that correct
[01:16:54.340 --> 01:17:01.940]  you want to go ahead and comment jeff that is partially correct so if the if the lea is
[01:17:01.940 --> 01:17:07.760]  utilizing something like the statewide online education program or a vendor to provide online
[01:17:07.760 --> 01:17:11.800]  education to enrolled students that are also attending brick and mortar classes that would
[01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:17.400]  not be prohibited here this would be prohibiting the practice however so partially correct
[01:17:17.400 --> 01:17:23.720]  fully online students who are never enrolled in brick and mortar courses and those online courses
[01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:27.180]  are exclusively provided by a third-party vendor
[01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:28.980]  and not from the LEA itself?
[01:17:30.040 --> 01:17:33.760]  So Jordan School District runs an online program,
[01:17:34.660 --> 01:17:36.380]  and they run it internally.
[01:17:36.800 --> 01:17:39.540]  They have their own staff, and everybody's on payroll,
[01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:40.940]  and they just run their own program.
[01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:46.620]  But if five years from now they decided it would be more efficient
[01:17:46.620 --> 01:17:50.500]  and maybe get a better quality education for students,
[01:17:50.500 --> 01:17:53.520]  and again, these are students, they attend an online school,
[01:17:53.680 --> 01:17:58.460]  they can be enrolled from anywhere in the state but if they decided that it was more efficient
[01:17:58.460 --> 01:18:07.100]  or or got better results if this was uh if they you know found a successful uh provider that that
[01:18:07.100 --> 01:18:12.680]  was doing this for less money and getting better results it sounds like this bill would preclude
[01:18:12.680 --> 01:18:20.920]  a school district from making that decision that would be correct okay all right thank you
[01:18:20.920 --> 01:18:26.980]  Thank you for that Claire, I don't thank you for those clarifying questions senator. I don't have any additional lights
[01:18:26.980 --> 01:18:30.640]  We'll go to the public for public comment. If there's anybody here that would like to comment
[01:18:31.880 --> 01:18:33.880]  Please introduce yourself
[01:18:34.740 --> 01:18:36.740]  State your name and who you represent
[01:18:37.440 --> 01:18:41.340]  Thank you. Mr. Chair Lexi Cunningham, and I represent the Utah School Superintendents Association
[01:18:41.940 --> 01:18:49.400]  I'd like to thank this committee for slowing this this process down in talking to our LEAs that are working with these
[01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:57.200]  These companies they are are very willing to engage with the legislature with USBE if necessary
[01:18:57.280 --> 01:19:04.060]  They want to be a part of the process so that we can make this right for districts and for families and for our students. So thank you for
[01:19:05.560 --> 01:19:08.160]  Delaying the process and investigating more
[01:19:08.980 --> 01:19:10.980]  Thank you. Are there any other public comments?
[01:19:13.480 --> 01:19:15.480]  Alright seeing none
[01:19:15.940 --> 01:19:19.620]  appreciate the committee's time appreciate the opportunity to have the discussion appreciate
[01:19:19.620 --> 01:19:24.260]  the good clarifying questions appreciate the public comment and this is a bill that we'll
[01:19:24.260 --> 01:19:29.700]  continue to work on and will be heard in the 2026 general session if you have feedback or
[01:19:29.700 --> 01:19:33.780]  comments or questions please reach out to me we'll be happy to try and work through those all right
[01:19:33.780 --> 01:19:41.380]  we're ready to move to our next agenda item this is item number six on the agenda privacy compliance
[01:19:41.380 --> 01:19:43.340]  for Education Technology Vendors.
[01:19:44.200 --> 01:19:47.260]  And again, this is related to a discussion
[01:19:47.260 --> 01:19:49.400]  that we had earlier in the interim committee,
[01:19:49.580 --> 01:19:51.120]  a report on data privacy.
[01:19:51.340 --> 01:19:53.280]  And we're going to have Representative Oksiera
[01:19:53.280 --> 01:19:55.160]  go ahead and make the presentation here.
[01:19:55.380 --> 01:19:56.380]  Here, do you want me to move down?
[01:19:56.880 --> 01:19:58.220]  If you'd like to, you can there.
[01:19:58.280 --> 01:19:59.780]  You can move down, whatever you're most comfortable with.
[01:19:59.780 --> 01:20:00.000]  Okay.
[01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:17.780]  is it on no no there you go try that one thank you okay um as we've heard this is something that
[01:20:17.780 --> 01:20:26.740]  was brought to us by usbe they um commissioned an audit to be performed um by byu and internet
[01:20:26.740 --> 01:20:34.180]  safety labs to investigate our ed tech application data collection and sharing and it was found out
[01:20:34.180 --> 01:20:40.900]  that we have almost 3 000 different ed tech applications used by different leas throughout
[01:20:40.900 --> 01:20:51.060]  the state and so they chose 100 apps from that list to investigate shockingly the investigation
[01:20:51.060 --> 01:20:57.320]  found that 52 percent of these vendors were collecting data elements that were not part of
[01:20:57.320 --> 01:21:05.300]  the data privacy agreement and that over a third or 36 percent of them were sharing data with ad
[01:21:05.300 --> 01:21:16.480]  tech companies so this bill would make it so that if these tech companies were found to be sharing
[01:21:16.480 --> 01:21:23.240]  data or selling the data to different ad tech companies that they would have 30 days to remedy
[01:21:23.240 --> 01:21:32.140]  the process or schools would be required to cancel that contract and also the schools would be
[01:21:32.140 --> 01:21:38.820]  protected from any kind of recourse as far as canceling the contract because we would be
[01:21:38.820 --> 01:21:44.820]  updating the agreements so that all of these companies then know that they have already been
[01:21:44.820 --> 01:21:47.400]  in violation of state and federal law,
[01:21:47.580 --> 01:21:49.300]  which these are laws right now.
[01:21:49.400 --> 01:21:51.080]  We just can see that they're violating them.
[01:21:51.160 --> 01:21:53.140]  So this is giving the schools some options
[01:21:53.140 --> 01:21:55.040]  to be able to get out of their contracts
[01:21:55.040 --> 01:21:59.700]  and also to hold these different app companies accountable.
[01:22:01.860 --> 01:22:03.080]  All right, very good.
[01:22:03.140 --> 01:22:06.240]  Is there any clarifying questions for Representative Luxier?
[01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:10.900]  All right, Senator Reby.
[01:22:12.300 --> 01:22:13.360]  Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[01:22:14.080 --> 01:22:22.520]  I've been on numerous RFPs, and when we create a contract, we should probably put this kind of language in there already.
[01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:33.260]  Once again, just wondering why we have to create a law that probably should be happening already.
[01:22:33.680 --> 01:22:38.640]  How many contracts are out there that don't have a clause that allows them to just get out of it?
[01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:43.640]  Well, as we've said, this is already in violation of law.
[01:22:43.860 --> 01:22:45.100]  So this is already happening.
[01:22:45.420 --> 01:22:51.960]  And so we obviously don't know out of those 3,000, we've only looked at 100 of them to
[01:22:51.960 --> 01:22:52.620]  see what's happening.
[01:22:52.620 --> 01:22:57.540]  But they are collecting outside of the data privacy agreements that are also part of that
[01:22:57.540 --> 01:22:58.080]  contract.
[01:22:58.340 --> 01:23:01.820]  So clearly, it is not being addressed in the contracts.
[01:23:02.060 --> 01:23:06.860]  And so we are wanting to make sure that they are updated to say that if they don't already.
[01:23:07.080 --> 01:23:08.400]  But if they already do, then that's great.
[01:23:08.460 --> 01:23:11.420]  And they're in compliance as far as the contract goes.
[01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:18.260]  And they will know that they have 30 days to remedy any sort of data selling of information.
[01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:21.360]  May I have one clarifying question?
[01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:21.700]  No, go ahead.
[01:23:21.900 --> 01:23:22.140]  Thanks.
[01:23:22.140 --> 01:23:30.920]  So is this happening with our districts purchasing an app or a school, specific school purchasing an app?
[01:23:31.040 --> 01:23:34.780]  Like, you know, I know that kids like to play prodigy math.
[01:23:34.860 --> 01:23:40.000]  And so prodigy math isn't okayed by the district, but might be not okayed by the state.
[01:23:40.160 --> 01:23:46.660]  but the school purchased it so is this on a district level a state level or a school it would
[01:23:46.660 --> 01:23:50.320]  be with whoever holds the contract so if a district does it then it would be across the
[01:23:50.320 --> 01:23:56.040]  district if it's an lea then it would be with them but we have 3 000 different ones that are
[01:23:56.040 --> 01:24:03.160]  held in different levels so if we just if we were just more compliant to the law that's already in
[01:24:03.160 --> 01:24:09.200]  place this is the same law yeah they shouldn't be doing any of this but they are so we need to give
[01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:16.240]  schools some teeth to be able to push back against it. And also to put these companies
[01:24:16.240 --> 01:24:21.240]  on notice that if you are breaking the law, you're risking losing your contract. Okay. Thank you.
[01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:28.780]  Thank you, Senator. I don't see any other clarifying questions. Is there any public comment
[01:24:28.780 --> 01:24:32.920]  for this particular bill file.
[01:24:38.620 --> 01:24:40.580]  Please state your name and who you represent.
[01:24:43.220 --> 01:24:46.320]  Jenny Earl, and I represent District 1,
[01:24:46.460 --> 01:24:49.220]  but I'm not representing the state school board at this time,
[01:24:49.280 --> 01:24:51.480]  but just discussions that have gone on.
[01:24:51.480 --> 01:24:56.180]  We have a student data privacy entity
[01:24:56.180 --> 01:24:58.600]  that is working on some other additional recommendations
[01:24:58.600 --> 01:25:00.000]  but I think anything that can draw
[01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:07.240]  attention to some of these violations of privacy. Um, every district should have a, um, a data
[01:25:07.240 --> 01:25:13.400]  dictionary that indicates every contract they hold and what, who is, um, part of that. So there
[01:25:13.400 --> 01:25:18.860]  is a concern if, if either teachers or schools are going out and, um, purchasing or creating
[01:25:18.860 --> 01:25:24.860]  contracts outside of what their areas, you know, their district is already approved for these very
[01:25:24.860 --> 01:25:30.480]  reasons. And I think this research does indicate that there are entities that are, until they're
[01:25:30.480 --> 01:25:36.280]  caught, so to speak, they are continuing to push the envelope on marketing or selling data or
[01:25:36.280 --> 01:25:41.500]  gathering data about students or IP addresses and such. So I do think this is a good provision
[01:25:41.500 --> 01:25:47.060]  to move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comments? Do you have anybody online?
[01:25:47.720 --> 01:25:53.820]  Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate that. We'll move back to the committee for
[01:25:53.820 --> 01:26:01.820]  potential action items, and this time we can favorably recommend or take
[01:26:01.820 --> 01:26:13.040]  other action. All right, Senator Baldery, thank you. I recommend that we forward
[01:26:13.040 --> 01:26:19.040]  this bill with a favorable recommendation. For the general session. So we have a
[01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:25.300]  motion to recommend favorably the privacy compliance for education technology vendors
[01:26:25.300 --> 01:26:30.100]  bill for the 2026 general session. Is there any discussion to that? We'll go to Senator Reby.
[01:26:31.220 --> 01:26:35.820]  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to oppose this bill. There is already a law in place. I think
[01:26:35.820 --> 01:26:40.560]  we should be working hard to make sure that people are compliant to that law. As a body,
[01:26:40.680 --> 01:26:45.300]  we talk about how we are trying to create a smaller government, a more efficient government.
[01:26:45.480 --> 01:26:48.360]  So creating a law to enforce the law seems redundant.
[01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:49.880]  So I'm going to be a no.
[01:26:50.020 --> 01:26:50.400]  Thank you.
[01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:51.560]  All right.
[01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:52.080]  Thank you.
[01:26:52.220 --> 01:26:58.020]  Are there any other comments from members of the committee related to the motion that's before us?
[01:26:58.280 --> 01:26:59.000]  Any other discussion?
[01:27:03.320 --> 01:27:03.980]  I'm sorry.
[01:27:05.060 --> 01:27:10.560]  I should have given you the opportunity before we went to the discussion, but go ahead.
[01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:11.200]  Yeah, thank you.
[01:27:11.200 --> 01:27:24.580]  I was just going to say that while we do have a law that we can't be selling data privacy, we don't have a law that lets schools be able to cancel their contracts within 30 days.
[01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:29.380]  So that's why this is necessary. It's not necessarily a law about what we already do.
[01:27:29.380 --> 01:27:40.700]  It's a it's new tools for the schools to be able to have so that they can cancel their contracts and no longer be spending taxpayer money on selling our students and children's privacy.
[01:27:41.200 --> 01:27:45.680]  and information all right thank you appreciate the sponsors comments there we'll go back to the
[01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:52.560]  maker of the motion uh for some i'll wave all right the motion before us is that uh we will
[01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:57.840]  uh recommend favorably privacy compliance for education technology vendors for the 2026 general
[01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:07.120]  session all in favor please say aye aye any opposed no so we have uh senator reby and
[01:28:07.120 --> 01:28:13.140]  representative most that are a no so the bill will move forward to the 2026 session it'll be
[01:28:13.140 --> 01:28:18.300]  in your name uh representative oxier but it will have to come back to committee okay thank you okay
[01:28:18.300 --> 01:28:22.500]  thank you for the committee's time on that we're gonna move to item number seven uh by the way
[01:28:22.500 --> 01:28:26.220]  committee members we're doing great job so thank you as we're moving along here we're gonna we're
[01:28:26.220 --> 01:28:34.460]  moving to item number seven public public education revisions uh this is a committee bill that uh was
[01:28:34.460 --> 01:28:43.120]  in response to some requests for legislation and collaboration with the Utah State Board of
[01:28:43.120 --> 01:28:48.580]  Education, and it was originally assigned to Senator Johnson. We're going to turn the time to
[01:28:48.580 --> 01:28:55.160]  I've got, oh, Mike, you've got this one. So we'll turn the time to
[01:28:55.160 --> 01:28:59.180]  Associate General Counsel Mike Curtis for the bill presentation.
[01:29:01.220 --> 01:29:06.520]  Morning, representatives and senators. My name is Mike Curtis, also one of the attorneys for
[01:29:06.520 --> 01:29:11.020]  the committee. You've heard the disclaimer a few times, but just in case you forgot,
[01:29:11.660 --> 01:29:15.580]  Ledge Research does not support or oppose bills, so we're just here to help.
[01:29:17.320 --> 01:29:24.540]  This bill filed, you all opened a committee bill file last month in response to a presentation
[01:29:24.540 --> 01:29:32.160]  from the state board, um, who had several, uh, policy requests. Um, you had some questions about
[01:29:32.160 --> 01:29:37.340]  a few of them and the state board came back with a much smaller list of requests for this bill file.
[01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:45.480]  Um, so it, it, it tackles, uh, mainly, uh, three things off of that, that policy list and then,
[01:29:45.480 --> 01:29:51.660]  and then one additional item. Um, I'll, I'll take it. I think Jeff did a great job taking his from
[01:29:51.660 --> 01:29:54.640]  the bottom to the top, so I'll do that too.
[01:29:54.640 --> 01:30:00.000]  At the bottom of this bill, it allows the State Board to reduce suicide prevention grant
[01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:06.420]  amounts when there's just insufficient funds. And so they can allow just for a little bit of
[01:30:06.420 --> 01:30:13.860]  an adjustment there. There are several sections in the bill that allow USDB to coordinate with
[01:30:13.860 --> 01:30:21.080]  the state security chief rather than a county security chief for the county in which each of
[01:30:21.080 --> 01:30:26.900]  the USDB facilities are located because they have multiple and that would implicate several
[01:30:26.900 --> 01:30:33.520]  County. So it's easier for them to just work with the state security chief. Regarding juvenile
[01:30:33.520 --> 01:30:39.740]  justice reintegration, the existing statute says school district, and it seemed like the intent
[01:30:39.740 --> 01:30:44.600]  would be to have all LEAs, so including charter schools. So the bill makes that adjustment.
[01:30:45.380 --> 01:30:51.960]  And then finally at the top, the bill authorizes the state board to appoint the state superintendent
[01:30:51.960 --> 01:30:56.700]  of public instruction as the superintendent of the Utah schools for the deaf and the blind.
[01:30:56.900 --> 01:31:06.480]  and then allows the state superintendent to delegate some of those responsibilities to another employee of the state board within that within the structure.
[01:31:07.480 --> 01:31:10.260]  So with that, I think that's it for me.
[01:31:10.260 --> 01:31:17.840]  And I would venture a guess that the state board is probably best suited to respond to the policy questions.
[01:31:19.300 --> 01:31:22.060]  All right. Thank you. I do have a few different lights.
[01:31:22.240 --> 01:31:25.320]  So I'm going to go to Representative Hayes first.
[01:31:26.260 --> 01:31:32.740]  Thank you. And I'm not sure who is best suited to answer this question, but I'm curious for the
[01:31:32.740 --> 01:31:39.160]  suicide prevention grants, how are those funded? So why would there be potentially insufficient
[01:31:39.160 --> 01:31:48.080]  funds in that pool? So we do have representatives from the state board here, which can help out
[01:31:48.080 --> 01:31:52.600]  with some of these questions. So we appreciate Deputy Superintendent Elise Newey, thank you for
[01:31:52.600 --> 01:31:58.140]  coming up and uh if we appreciate your willingness to help out with a couple of clarifying questions
[01:31:58.140 --> 01:32:05.320]  thank you um so this is funded through um i believe one of the taxes i will have to look
[01:32:05.320 --> 01:32:12.600]  and follow up and send it to this group um but it's a tax pool that sometimes fluctuates so this
[01:32:12.600 --> 01:32:17.480]  was reported on yesterday in the eac for example that we have some programs funded through the
[01:32:17.480 --> 01:32:22.540]  liquor tax for example and as people's drinking habits have changed our tax revenue has gone
[01:32:22.540 --> 01:32:28.200]  down. And so some of the programs that relied on those taxes don't get fully funded at times. And
[01:32:28.200 --> 01:32:32.800]  so we just want to make sure that we're not out of compliance when, if we fund using all of the
[01:32:32.800 --> 01:32:37.280]  money that we have available, but it doesn't quite meet the $1,000 threshold. Fantastic. Thank you,
[01:32:37.300 --> 01:32:41.880]  deputies. Thank you, Mr. Chair. All right. Thank you for that clarifying question. We'll go to
[01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:51.600]  Representative Moss. Thank you. I'm not sure who should answer this question, but I had an email
[01:32:51.600 --> 01:32:58.760]  from a family um that was lengthy and i didn't see it till this morning but they're questioning
[01:32:58.760 --> 01:33:06.600]  their children's ability to get the same services with the new um oversight you know the superintendent
[01:33:06.600 --> 01:33:13.820]  covering this um as well as being state superintendent and saying that they wouldn't
[01:33:13.820 --> 01:33:21.580]  be able to attend a program in ogden if this bill passes can somebody address that for me
[01:33:21.580 --> 01:33:30.460]  all right um i'm looking to see if uh there might be somebody that can answer that question
[01:33:30.460 --> 01:33:38.320]  but well they address okay we've got we've got a we've got a uh phone a friend okay
[01:33:38.320 --> 01:33:44.480]  all right go ahead leanne introduce yourself and if you can take a shot at that we appreciate it
[01:33:44.480 --> 01:33:48.240]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[01:33:48.360 --> 01:33:49.060]  You need a microphone.
[01:33:49.300 --> 01:33:49.700]  Thank you.
[01:33:50.200 --> 01:33:53.480]  Thank you, Leanne Wood, Vice Chair, Utah State Board of Education.
[01:33:53.480 --> 01:33:59.340]  I think we want to clarify there's a lot of things going on in the space of USDB right now.
[01:33:59.880 --> 01:34:06.040]  So over the weekend, this group presented some recommendations to the EAC.
[01:34:06.340 --> 01:34:08.120]  That has created a lot of flux.
[01:34:08.280 --> 01:34:13.600]  We had almost a roomful and an overflow yesterday in EAC of families from USDB.
[01:34:14.180 --> 01:34:19.480]  So I believe that that is more related to some of those recommendations that they're concerned about.
[01:34:19.700 --> 01:34:25.460]  As far as this recommendation, it did come from us as the USDB Standing Committee
[01:34:25.460 --> 01:34:34.920]  because we had to partner with each of those county safety security chiefs,
[01:34:34.920 --> 01:34:38.660]  and we were hoping as a statewide entity we could have one, you know,
[01:34:38.700 --> 01:34:42.080]  because they are a statewide LEA, one statewide assessment.
[01:34:42.920 --> 01:34:47.480]  I do need to look at it to make sure that if there was some type of tragedy or something
[01:34:47.480 --> 01:34:52.680]  in each of those counties, I want to make sure that that rule allows them to work with
[01:34:52.680 --> 01:34:56.320]  those local officials so that we make sure those kids in each of those different counties,
[01:34:56.320 --> 01:35:00.000]  because there's four campuses right now. We have one in Ogden, Salt Lake, Springfield,
[01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:05.840]  Springville and Washington County, but this would allow the assessment to take place as a whole.
[01:35:05.840 --> 01:35:13.960]  Okay. Well, because we're not meeting education appropriations this week and because there is a
[01:35:13.960 --> 01:35:22.480]  change in governance with Superintendent Hart and Leah Voorhees, I just wanted to make sure that
[01:35:22.480 --> 01:35:27.760]  this was on the radar that, you know, you're talking to these parents and they'll have an
[01:35:27.760 --> 01:35:34.880]  opportunity to address this before these programs might be cut absolutely and and at this point
[01:35:34.880 --> 01:35:40.780]  there's these are only recommendations moving forward we did put in place this secondary
[01:35:40.780 --> 01:35:48.160]  this is this request regarding the superintendent came from us what we've seen right now is that we
[01:35:48.160 --> 01:35:55.940]  have someone who's on the boots boots on the ground in the office reporting to someone with
[01:35:55.940 --> 01:36:02.060]  very high special education expertise and then reporting to the state superintendent who works
[01:36:02.060 --> 01:36:06.920]  with us as a board. So we found it to be, in the few months that we've been applying this on an
[01:36:06.920 --> 01:36:13.200]  interim basis, it's been a very productive change for us. Okay, thank you very much for that
[01:36:13.200 --> 01:36:22.420]  information. Thank you. All right, thank you. Senator Reby. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am on EAC
[01:36:22.420 --> 01:36:24.480]  and I received all those emails last night,
[01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:26.160]  and I understand this isn't the same thing,
[01:36:26.260 --> 01:36:28.380]  but as somebody who was on the state school board
[01:36:28.380 --> 01:36:32.440]  and have watched what's happened at the state school
[01:36:32.440 --> 01:36:33.480]  for the deaf and the blind,
[01:36:34.160 --> 01:36:37.720]  I am very reticent to have the state superintendent
[01:36:37.720 --> 01:36:40.340]  be the superintendent.
[01:36:41.060 --> 01:36:42.440]  We'll try and remedy that.
[01:36:45.380 --> 01:36:48.900]  Just a little nod to being sight impaired, maybe.
[01:36:49.420 --> 01:36:51.120]  Apparently this is a dramatic issue.
[01:36:52.420 --> 01:36:53.920]  Go ahead, Senator Reeve.
[01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:01.720]  I cannot agree with having the superintendent be the superintendent for the state school for the deaf and the blind.
[01:37:02.840 --> 01:37:06.900]  I've seen great things coming out of the state school for the deaf and the blind,
[01:37:07.000 --> 01:37:10.520]  but I've also seen some financial issues coming out of the school for the deaf and the blind.
[01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:17.260]  And I really believe that the advisory committee that represents those populations should have more teeth
[01:37:17.260 --> 01:37:21.720]  and should be added to a higher extent and they should have their own
[01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:29.080]  superintendent so this leaves me very very alarmed and not to the you know I'm
[01:37:29.080 --> 01:37:34.480]  not trying to denigrate anybody's work but I do believe this population has not
[01:37:34.480 --> 01:37:38.920]  gotten the representation they deserve and so I believe that they should have
[01:37:38.920 --> 01:37:44.120]  their own superintendent that advocates for them at a robust level so this makes
[01:37:44.120 --> 01:37:51.320]  me very cautious. And I cannot support this bill by taking the state superintendent and making them
[01:37:51.320 --> 01:37:56.000]  the superintendent for the school. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Reby. Are there any other
[01:37:56.000 --> 01:38:06.500]  comments from members of the committee? Any other clarifying questions? Representative Auxier.
[01:38:06.760 --> 01:38:13.500]  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was on the study group for the USDB. And just a little clarification,
[01:38:14.120 --> 01:38:20.260]  All of the financial reporting is now going to be being done at the USBE level right now anyway.
[01:38:20.520 --> 01:38:28.060]  So in order to bifurcate and have a superintendent and then the financials being done somewhere else doesn't necessarily make sense.
[01:38:28.160 --> 01:38:35.060]  And as we've seen, there have been some issues that were not being taken care of at the superintendent level when it was independent.
[01:38:35.060 --> 01:38:44.080]  And also we passed legislation last session to bring USDB under the state school board as an entity there.
[01:38:44.120 --> 01:38:57.540]  So for me, it definitely makes sense for this recommendation from USVE to make the superintendent over the school because there is already so much oversight happening at the state school board level.
[01:38:57.640 --> 01:39:03.420]  So I just wanted to let a lot of the members of the committee know that that is what has been going on now.
[01:39:03.800 --> 01:39:05.500]  I appreciate that clarification.
[01:39:05.500 --> 01:39:18.520]  So again, just for members of the committee, we've got legislation last year that moved the Utah School of the Deaf and Blind board underneath the Utah State School Board.
[01:39:18.580 --> 01:39:20.460]  So there's not an independent separate board.
[01:39:21.320 --> 01:39:31.500]  And right now, currently, the superintendent has been appointed as the interim superintendent for the schools of the deaf and blind.
[01:39:31.500 --> 01:39:35.380]  And so we're just trying to align those functions the way that they're actually functioning today.
[01:39:35.500 --> 01:39:37.660]  So just for clarification for the members of the committee.
[01:39:38.120 --> 01:39:40.220]  Any other clarifying questions for members of the committee?
[01:39:41.500 --> 01:39:44.260]  Okay, do we have, yes, go ahead.
[01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:45.320]  I apologize.
[01:39:45.380 --> 01:39:46.260]  Thank you, Deputy Superintendent.
[01:39:46.960 --> 01:39:47.880]  I apologize, Chair.
[01:39:48.280 --> 01:39:50.740]  I misspoke when I was answering Representative Hayes' question.
[01:39:51.040 --> 01:39:52.440]  In that case, it wasn't a tax.
[01:39:52.440 --> 01:39:55.700]  This one is a direct appropriation from the legislature,
[01:39:55.880 --> 01:39:57.880]  but sometimes in lean years it gets really close,
[01:39:58.040 --> 01:39:59.100]  and so we just wanted to make sure.
[01:39:59.200 --> 01:40:00.000]  I apologize, I mixed up.
[01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:03.240]  my programs but just want to make that clear thank you for that clarification
[01:40:03.240 --> 01:40:08.880]  all right we appreciate the discussion at this point we're gonna move to public
[01:40:08.880 --> 01:40:13.920]  comment so is there any public comment for the draft legislation public
[01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:26.640]  education revisions we have anybody online okay all right seeing no public
[01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:36.820]  comment. We'll move to action items from our committee. All right. Representative Thompson.
[01:40:38.240 --> 01:40:43.380]  It's me, actually. I'm sorry. You're on my... Representative Oxier. Do you want to make...
[01:40:43.380 --> 01:40:49.100]  No, that's all right. Go ahead. Thank you. I move to favorably recommend this committee bill into
[01:40:49.100 --> 01:40:54.480]  the general session. All right. We have a motion to favorably recommend public education revisions.
[01:40:54.480 --> 01:40:55.640]  Would you like to speak to that motion?
[01:40:55.880 --> 01:40:56.240]  I'll wave.
[01:40:56.660 --> 01:40:56.980]  Okay.
[01:40:57.540 --> 01:40:58.820]  Are there any further discussion?
[01:41:03.440 --> 01:41:04.740]  Representative Hayes.
[01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:06.420]  Thank you.
[01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:08.120]  I'm not necessarily opposed to this.
[01:41:08.200 --> 01:41:10.720]  I just want to clarify I'm voting no today
[01:41:10.720 --> 01:41:12.740]  because I want to hear from representatives
[01:41:12.740 --> 01:41:14.000]  from the School of the Deaf and the Blind,
[01:41:14.100 --> 01:41:16.440]  and they don't appear to be here in the audience today,
[01:41:16.540 --> 01:41:19.080]  and so I think that that needs to be part of the discussion as well.
[01:41:19.800 --> 01:41:20.160]  Okay.
[01:41:20.180 --> 01:41:21.380]  Thank you, Representative Hayes.
[01:41:21.380 --> 01:41:28.780]  any other comments questions discussion from our committee all right back to the
[01:41:28.780 --> 01:41:33.740]  maker of the motion I'll wave all right represent Vox here waves the motion
[01:41:33.740 --> 01:41:38.560]  before us is to recommend favorably public education revisions for the 2026
[01:41:38.560 --> 01:41:47.260]  general session all in favor please say aye aye any opposed all right we have
[01:41:47.260 --> 01:41:54.400]  No's from Representative Moss, Representative Hayes, and Senator... I'm sorry. Thank you.
[01:41:56.280 --> 01:42:02.200]  Okay. I'm clarifying that. I apologize for that. Senator Reby and Representative Hayes.
[01:42:02.780 --> 01:42:07.980]  Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Okay. All right. Appreciate the time on that.
[01:42:07.980 --> 01:42:18.840]  we're gonna move to draft legislation school attendance so that sorry I don't
[01:42:18.840 --> 01:42:22.440]  number seven public education revisions it's been assigned to report to Senator
[01:42:22.440 --> 01:42:27.420]  Johnson and it'll go through committee for the general session so we're gonna
[01:42:27.420 --> 01:42:30.220]  move to item number eight school attendance modifications
[01:42:30.220 --> 01:42:35.760]  representative Welton has been working on this issue for a long time he's put a
[01:42:35.760 --> 01:42:40.240]  lot of time and effort into this he's seeking feedback from our committee and so we'll turn the
[01:42:40.240 --> 01:42:47.280]  time to him to present his bill and uh any questions or comments that you have for representative
[01:42:47.280 --> 01:42:52.340]  welton so go ahead represent walton okay thank you mr chair and committee uh i come up here
[01:42:52.340 --> 01:42:59.680]  without uh with a note of irony that i am playing hooky from school today to discuss attendance so
[01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:05.740]  maybe i'm part of the problem um this has been an issue that we've seen um for many years those
[01:43:05.740 --> 01:43:09.180]  in the public who don't know, I am a public school teacher. I'm boots on the grounds. I
[01:43:09.180 --> 01:43:15.660]  live this life. I see this. I can talk about my experiences anecdotally. And then we've also
[01:43:15.660 --> 01:43:20.500]  looked at studies broadly in this committee already, and we've seen what the correlation
[01:43:20.500 --> 01:43:25.820]  between attendance and grades and outcomes and things like that. So there's been a lot of energy
[01:43:25.820 --> 01:43:31.180]  and discussions on attendance. I think there's probably several attendance bills that are out
[01:43:31.180 --> 01:43:36.180]  there. This is my stab at it. And while I would love a committee bill file, I think this is
[01:43:36.180 --> 01:43:41.580]  probably going to be more of a let's figure it out and get some feedback and we'll tweak this a
[01:43:41.580 --> 01:43:46.700]  little bit more. But if you love it, then I won't say no to moving forward. So this bill has
[01:43:46.700 --> 01:43:53.520]  essentially two parts to it. The first part is one of the arguments that we've heard over the years
[01:43:53.520 --> 01:43:59.040]  is that the attendance grade should be separate from a citizenship grade. So attendance and all
[01:43:59.040 --> 01:44:03.340]  those things shouldn't factor into what a student's grade is. And so we're going to talk about that one
[01:44:03.340 --> 01:44:08.520]  first. Because one of the things we run into is not every school has an attendance grade. And those
[01:44:08.520 --> 01:44:12.920]  who do have attendance grades, or not attendance grades, citizenship grades, they don't always mean
[01:44:12.920 --> 01:44:19.760]  anything. I can tell you we've tried attendance or citizenship grades in my district, and they
[01:44:19.760 --> 01:44:26.100]  don't mean anything. They have little weight, little bearing on anything. But one of the other
[01:44:26.100 --> 01:44:29.260]  things we've looked at over the years, if you look at portrait of a graduate, if you look at
[01:44:29.260 --> 01:44:35.280]  some of the discussions we've had is we really need kids with durable skills. And some of those
[01:44:35.280 --> 01:44:40.340]  durable skills are citizenship, showing up to class, going to work, going to, you know, and
[01:44:40.340 --> 01:44:44.660]  those carry on to like the workforce and those places like that. So this is an attempt on this
[01:44:44.660 --> 01:44:50.080]  part right here is to make attendance more or citizenship more meaningful for it to count for
[01:44:50.080 --> 01:44:54.400]  something and more of a carrot approach. And so what we're doing here is we're going to ask
[01:44:54.400 --> 01:44:56.400]  kind of a creation
[01:44:56.400 --> 01:44:57.460]  of established norms
[01:44:57.460 --> 01:44:58.700]  of what a citizenship grade
[01:44:58.700 --> 01:44:59.220]  looks like
[01:44:59.220 --> 01:45:00.000]  so it's consistent
[01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:05.120]  across the system. And one of the reasons why we're looking at a consistent citizenship grade
[01:45:05.120 --> 01:45:09.980]  is because we are going to, what this bill proposes, that we create a pilot program
[01:45:09.980 --> 01:45:17.700]  where there's scholarship money available based off of your citizenship grade. And the idea there
[01:45:17.700 --> 01:45:24.080]  is we hope to change behavior. A lot of times in the business world, there's the saying that you
[01:45:24.080 --> 01:45:30.360]  get what you measure and we don't measure durable skills at all uh when you're talking about an
[01:45:30.360 --> 01:45:35.920]  academic only grade and so when we get into the to the higher level education you see a lot of
[01:45:35.920 --> 01:45:40.760]  colleges and professors who are frustrated that kids are coming late and they're not turning in
[01:45:40.760 --> 01:45:44.720]  their work on time and they're missing out and same thing in the workforce we have kids who
[01:45:44.720 --> 01:45:47.480]  come to work and they don't come to work and some of that is because
[01:45:47.480 --> 01:45:54.960]  that's what we're teaching them in the k-12 level to a certain extent and so with the creation of
[01:45:54.960 --> 01:46:00.720]  the standard size citizenship grade it's going to create a pilot that will allow usbe and yushi
[01:46:00.720 --> 01:46:05.700]  to choose like a regional area where they will partner with a higher education institution it
[01:46:05.700 --> 01:46:09.880]  could be uvu could be weber state could be several and they were going to look at this
[01:46:09.880 --> 01:46:15.100]  and then there will be scholarship dollars that will be tied to their citizenship grade there
[01:46:15.100 --> 01:46:22.000]  will also then be like tracking. And the tracking will be for two things. We want to track it to see
[01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:28.000]  if this does actually have the positive intended outcomes we want in, particularly in high school
[01:46:28.000 --> 01:46:32.300]  levels, where we increase attendance and we increase participation in the high school level
[01:46:32.300 --> 01:46:39.620]  and engagement, which also correlates to academic and test scores. Like those are all coupled into
[01:46:39.620 --> 01:46:45.820]  that. We also want to look at higher education to see if they are also getting the benefits. So one
[01:46:45.820 --> 01:46:50.300]  of the reasons in doing this is we believe that this will have a partnership effect, a synergistic
[01:46:50.300 --> 01:46:56.760]  effect with K-12, high school in particular, and higher education. And so we want to see if the
[01:46:56.760 --> 01:47:01.260]  students who are getting the citizenship scholarship are also having improved behaviors
[01:47:01.260 --> 01:47:09.600]  at the higher education level. The second one is trying to make citizenship, and this is
[01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:13.480]  kind of been an ugly word. We talk about citizenship. There's been discussions of truancy
[01:47:13.480 --> 01:47:19.340]  courts. We kind of moved away from that for fear of the school-to-prison pipeline. I can say for
[01:47:19.340 --> 01:47:22.960]  most of my career, attendance was actually allowed to be part of a grade. We moved away from that a
[01:47:22.960 --> 01:47:29.200]  few years ago. And so the other prong here is we actually would like to make citizenship be part
[01:47:29.200 --> 01:47:33.920]  of an academic grade. And there's some question on that. There's been some pushback over that,
[01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:38.620]  like an academic grade should only measure academics. And I'll give you a few reasons why
[01:47:38.620 --> 01:47:43.020]  why I would push back on that a little bit. The first thing is in this system,
[01:47:43.760 --> 01:47:50.040]  we are creating a pathway for students to test out of core classes. So if you really have
[01:47:50.040 --> 01:47:55.180]  proficiency, and we believe in proficiency is the way to determine an academic grade,
[01:47:55.640 --> 01:48:05.400]  this bill would require a test out option for core areas that's rigorous, that equals to like
[01:48:05.400 --> 01:48:11.160]  be in a class situation and things like that. If a student chooses and takes the test and they show
[01:48:11.160 --> 01:48:16.560]  that they are competent in math or science or English or whatever it is that meets those
[01:48:16.560 --> 01:48:21.860]  rigorous standards, then they can get the credit for the class without having to take the class.
[01:48:22.380 --> 01:48:27.700]  If they need to be in class and they're unable to pass it or they choose not to pass the test,
[01:48:28.140 --> 01:48:33.140]  then attendance then becomes something that is required for part of their grade.
[01:48:33.360 --> 01:48:39.040]  And the bill would allow 10% to 20% of their grade to be based off of attendance.
[01:48:40.020 --> 01:48:42.680]  In that attendance, there is still another carve-out.
[01:48:43.480 --> 01:48:58.260]  I forget what line it is now, but there's a carve-out that allows LEAs to exclude a certain portion based off of allowable parent-excused absences, school-excused absences, things like that.
[01:48:58.300 --> 01:49:00.960]  So those are not going to harm your grade.
[01:49:01.240 --> 01:49:05.080]  You can take a few days off as a family, a kid can be sick, things like that.
[01:49:05.120 --> 01:49:10.780]  It would also allow an LEA to work with the student to determine what those carve-outs are.
[01:49:11.720 --> 01:49:17.960]  But other than that, then attendance would be part of the grade, 10 to 20%.
[01:49:17.960 --> 01:49:23.020]  In discussing this, there's a lot of questions on what an academic grade is.
[01:49:23.600 --> 01:49:30.100]  I would argue that an academic grade includes the discussions you have with your classmates on the subject area.
[01:49:30.520 --> 01:49:35.120]  So if I'm teaching a philosophy class, we have conversations on the side about the philosophical
[01:49:35.120 --> 01:49:42.120]  content and the ideas there that is absolutely student learning that you do not get if you're
[01:49:42.120 --> 01:49:43.360]  not in the classroom.
[01:49:43.780 --> 01:49:47.660]  Now, if I were to go on, I would try to assess that academically all the time.
[01:49:47.720 --> 01:49:49.280]  That would be a very, very difficult thing to do.
[01:49:49.320 --> 01:49:52.660]  And the kids wouldn't like the class and I wouldn't like the class, but it is a hundred
[01:49:52.660 --> 01:49:57.120]  percent part of student learning when you are in the school and you're talking about
[01:49:57.120 --> 01:50:00.000]  math and science and you're talking about how it interplays that.
[01:50:00.000 --> 01:50:04.420]  you have the same common experiences and you talk, you know, you're having those conversations.
[01:50:05.340 --> 01:50:10.540]  We also see the correlation between grades and test scores. Students who are in class
[01:50:10.540 --> 01:50:19.760]  have higher grades and higher test scores. So anyway, I could go on and on, but that's the
[01:50:19.760 --> 01:50:25.020]  essence of the bill. And I'm open to any questions or feedback or comments that you may have on the
[01:50:25.020 --> 01:50:32.020]  Bill. All right. Thank you for that presentation. We do have a number of questions here. So we're
[01:50:32.020 --> 01:50:37.500]  going to start with this time, actually, Representative Thompson. So go ahead.
[01:50:38.580 --> 01:50:44.360]  Thank you, Mr. Chair. First and foremost, I want to thank Representative Weldon for his
[01:50:44.360 --> 01:50:51.020]  passion and his work on this issue. This is a very, very complicated issue where there's
[01:50:51.020 --> 01:51:02.420]  no silver bullet to solve it. I don't know where I sit on citizenship grades. I love having an
[01:51:02.420 --> 01:51:11.100]  option for kids to be able to test out of a course. It seems to me like anytime I'm able to
[01:51:11.100 --> 01:51:18.240]  find some kind of headway in the chronic absenteeism world, it opens a whole new host of
[01:51:18.240 --> 01:51:25.460]  questions. Um, for me, for example, um, we look at one of my 16 year old boys. Um, he came home
[01:51:25.460 --> 01:51:30.220]  and it was, he's a straight A student. He came home and he had a B in a class and I don't remember
[01:51:30.220 --> 01:51:33.680]  what class it was. It was like pottery or something. And I'm like, or no, it wasn't pottery.
[01:51:33.760 --> 01:51:38.720]  It was, it was something else. But, um, but he had a B in the class. I'm like, dude, what are you
[01:51:38.720 --> 01:51:45.600]  doing? And, and his response to me was very telling because I know, I know my son, he said,
[01:51:45.600 --> 01:51:51.860]  dad i'm bored and then i get distracted and i'm bored and um so it said that says a lot to me but
[01:51:51.860 --> 01:51:58.660]  the point i want to make is is for the kids that are excelling and doing well and have good grades
[01:51:58.660 --> 01:52:06.380]  and they're missing and they're missing um school i'm less concerned there than um our students who
[01:52:06.380 --> 01:52:12.340]  are not on grade level our students who are not excelling and having good grades whose parents
[01:52:12.340 --> 01:52:17.240]  are not responding to the school when the school is reaching out saying hey your kid's not coming
[01:52:17.240 --> 01:52:25.340]  to school um so we have all these wpu add-ons for um uh for at-risk kids for english as a second
[01:52:25.340 --> 01:52:30.560]  language for special education i'm not arguing that there shouldn't be but it leads to the
[01:52:30.560 --> 01:52:36.700]  question of well okay we we have these kids that are getting good grades um they can test out of a
[01:52:36.700 --> 01:52:43.960]  class, then what? What are they doing with that time? Where are we meeting that kid where they're
[01:52:43.960 --> 01:52:50.280]  at and help them to get where they have the potential to go? So I don't know where I'm at
[01:52:50.280 --> 01:52:57.460]  on citizenship grades. But we have a huge issue that we need to address. And I appreciate what
[01:52:57.460 --> 01:53:01.920]  you're trying to do with this bill. I know that Senator Fillmore has a bill that he's working on.
[01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:08.260]  I'm trying to work with him on that. I have some ideas and thoughts. I don't know where I'm at on
[01:53:08.260 --> 01:53:16.320]  the bill today, but I am excited to have some more conversations with you and to hopefully be able to
[01:53:16.320 --> 01:53:21.680]  have some input here on the bill that you're working on. So that more of a comment, less of
[01:53:21.680 --> 01:53:25.260]  a question, but I wanted to thank you for your hard work. I know you're putting a lot of time,
[01:53:25.380 --> 01:53:30.220]  energy, and passion into this. So thank you. Thank you. All right, Representative Moss.
[01:53:31.480 --> 01:53:33.900]  Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Representative.
[01:53:35.080 --> 01:53:39.440]  It makes me very happy to hear this proposal
[01:53:39.440 --> 01:53:44.720]  and remind me that the importance of having teachers
[01:53:44.720 --> 01:53:48.160]  or people with education backgrounds in these making policy.
[01:53:49.060 --> 01:53:52.140]  So my question is about the test-out option.
[01:53:53.060 --> 01:53:56.860]  I agree with your point about kids being bored,
[01:53:56.860 --> 01:54:00.200]  but that's really always been the purpose of having AP classes
[01:54:00.200 --> 01:54:04.040]  and concurrent enrollment and IB classes
[01:54:04.040 --> 01:54:06.820]  so kids can just skip those basic things
[01:54:06.820 --> 01:54:08.640]  and go right to the high level
[01:54:08.640 --> 01:54:12.360]  that they're still studying math or calculus,
[01:54:12.620 --> 01:54:13.540]  but it's high level.
[01:54:13.700 --> 01:54:16.240]  Same thing with English, honors, or AP.
[01:54:18.100 --> 01:54:19.580]  It's much more challenging.
[01:54:20.500 --> 01:54:22.920]  So I like that part of it.
[01:54:23.400 --> 01:54:25.240]  Can you just answer a question?
[01:54:25.400 --> 01:54:26.560]  Did I ask a question?
[01:54:27.060 --> 01:54:30.160]  Why would you have that if you had the other options?
[01:54:30.200 --> 01:54:34.000]  that I'm pointing out, why would you need a test out option?
[01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:37.960]  Oh, so I guess, and I can maybe answer this a little bit.
[01:54:37.960 --> 01:54:42.880]  So when we're talking about like if you test out, then there's a couple of options that
[01:54:42.880 --> 01:54:44.280]  open up to you as I see it.
[01:54:44.280 --> 01:54:46.620]  So one is you can take more advanced classes.
[01:54:46.620 --> 01:54:47.620]  You can take AP.
[01:54:47.620 --> 01:54:48.620]  You can take concurrent enrollment.
[01:54:48.620 --> 01:54:50.080]  You can go to the Catalyst Center.
[01:54:50.080 --> 01:54:54.080]  You've got more time and more space in your schedule that you can do some of these.
[01:54:54.080 --> 01:54:58.440]  Or you finish high school sooner, get into your career sooner, get into college sooner,
[01:54:58.440 --> 01:55:00.000]  get into work sooner.
[01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:07.620]  I think there's a lot of options for those kids who are bored that now they have more options because they've cut down on class time that's not needed.
[01:55:07.620 --> 01:55:17.160]  So whether it's an expansion of educational opportunities in the K-12 space, like the Catalyst Centers and AP and concurrent enrollment IB programs,
[01:55:17.240 --> 01:55:24.140]  or whether it's kind of graduating early and moving out or doing internships, things like that.
[01:55:24.200 --> 01:55:26.480]  I think it actually opens up a lot of those doors to that.
[01:55:26.900 --> 01:55:28.300]  Okay, thank you for that information.
[01:55:28.300 --> 01:55:41.140]  I just want to point out that in the last few years we've had, I remember, superintendents, three from Weber County, who told us that any given day, 25% of the kids are absent.
[01:55:41.640 --> 01:55:43.300]  And this is happening all over.
[01:55:43.980 --> 01:55:47.900]  And when I was teaching, citizenship grades existed.
[01:55:48.320 --> 01:55:55.280]  And I had parents that cared as much about their kids' citizenship grade as they did about their academic grade.
[01:55:55.860 --> 01:56:01.940]  And I think that was a compelling reason to get kids to come to school
[01:56:01.940 --> 01:56:03.740]  because parents knew it would hurt.
[01:56:04.340 --> 01:56:07.400]  You know, if you're not sick, we're not just going to take you out on vacation.
[01:56:08.860 --> 01:56:12.920]  And if you can believe this, people, when my kids were young,
[01:56:13.560 --> 01:56:17.320]  if the student missed, this is in Granite, missed five times,
[01:56:17.380 --> 01:56:18.720]  you had to get a note from a doctor.
[01:56:18.720 --> 01:56:20.260]  Now, that's a little excessive.
[01:56:20.540 --> 01:56:22.580]  You know, everybody can't afford to go to a doctor.
[01:56:23.200 --> 01:56:24.640]  You know, maybe they had strep throat.
[01:56:25.100 --> 01:56:30.160]  But when it changed, our laws changed to just parents have a right to decide
[01:56:30.160 --> 01:56:33.120]  whether their kids are in school or not, and they don't have to give any reason.
[01:56:33.660 --> 01:56:36.600]  Yes, we used to write notes, and maybe some were forged,
[01:56:36.940 --> 01:56:40.120]  but there has to be some compelling reason for kids.
[01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:41.900]  Do you think kids would do that?
[01:56:42.180 --> 01:56:43.280]  We would never forge notes.
[01:56:43.280 --> 01:56:47.380]  There has to be a compelling reason for kids to attend other than just,
[01:56:47.680 --> 01:56:49.960]  well, I'm bored or something like that.
[01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:54.720]  I think it ties into everything we try to teach kids about responsibility,
[01:56:55.100 --> 01:56:57.660]  when they're adults in their profession and so on.
[01:56:57.820 --> 01:57:00.280]  So I really applaud you for trying to do this,
[01:57:00.340 --> 01:57:04.100]  and I think it's something we really need to go forward with.
[01:57:04.400 --> 01:57:04.840]  Thank you.
[01:57:05.160 --> 01:57:05.480]  Thank you.
[01:57:05.700 --> 01:57:07.000]  All right, we've got a number of lights on.
[01:57:07.160 --> 01:57:08.860]  Thank you, Representative Moss.
[01:57:08.960 --> 01:57:11.720]  We'll go to Representative Perucci.
[01:57:12.280 --> 01:57:12.880]  Thank you.
[01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:15.500]  I know you've been working on this for, what, three sessions now?
[01:57:15.780 --> 01:57:16.200]  Two sessions?
[01:57:16.460 --> 01:57:17.120]  A little bit of time.
[01:57:17.400 --> 01:57:17.640]  Okay.
[01:57:18.380 --> 01:57:19.920]  No, and I think all of us,
[01:57:19.920 --> 01:57:22.620]  we've had absenteeism on our interim study items
[01:57:22.620 --> 01:57:29.300]  since i've gone in the legislature um six years ago so i know this is something we always circle
[01:57:29.300 --> 01:57:34.740]  around but as you can see it creates a lot of conversation so i think your bill you're doing
[01:57:34.740 --> 01:57:42.600]  a mashup of all these great ideas i do have concerns about a the pilot program just because
[01:57:42.600 --> 01:57:47.280]  i don't think we should be paying people to go to school um we're always we're already paying for
[01:57:47.280 --> 01:57:53.820]  other school uh but i do like i mean so are you sorry i'm all over the place here are you saying
[01:57:53.820 --> 01:57:58.800]  though the state board would be mandating a citizenship grade because you at the beginning
[01:57:58.800 --> 01:58:05.100]  said there are some schools that are not so standard is okay a couple things here if i may
[01:58:05.100 --> 01:58:09.920]  miss your chair so yes please go ahead standardization of uh a citizenship grade so it's
[01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:16.120]  consistent and it means something we we roughly know what an a and a b and a c means that's not
[01:58:16.120 --> 01:58:19.600]  always consistent but we've got a pretty good idea but on the citizenship grade we really have
[01:58:19.600 --> 01:58:24.240]  no idea what it is and so there's kind of a standardization and this is more so for people
[01:58:24.240 --> 01:58:30.320]  who want to participate so so yushi and higher ed can have something meaningful to compare against
[01:58:30.320 --> 01:58:35.360]  okay and so that's that's part of why it's it's standardized there okay i appreciate that and
[01:58:35.360 --> 01:58:41.960]  again i think that you're preparing people for real life if you tell your boss oh i already got
[01:58:41.960 --> 01:58:45.840]  i already did it yesterday i'm not showing up to work today they're like great find another job
[01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:51.960]  right um so i do think you're preparing them with real hard skills i think too in terms of
[01:58:51.960 --> 01:58:56.860]  college we have given a false sense of what academics looks like for students right now
[01:58:56.860 --> 01:59:00.700]  where they can show up the last day of class and ask how do i get nay and when you tell them to
[01:59:00.700 --> 01:59:06.900]  retake the class they're flabbergasted um so i think that's all good i do think and you've seen
[01:59:06.900 --> 01:59:10.920]  us all we're all talking about your bill up here it's not what we're doing this weekend it's about
[01:59:10.920 --> 01:59:17.420]  your bill uh and and i think there is this sense of the the moments when say a parent takes their
[01:59:17.420 --> 01:59:24.740]  kid to washington dc or to the middle east or to a major cultural experience is there a way that
[01:59:24.740 --> 01:59:31.340]  this could be scaffold enough where you have a targeted approach where a teacher would have the
[01:59:31.340 --> 01:59:37.980]  ability to take it on a case by case in that okay you still need to make up your work if as long as
[01:59:37.980 --> 01:59:39.800]  you make up your work but you
[01:59:39.800 --> 01:59:41.860]  maybe do a paper on this experience
[01:59:41.860 --> 01:59:43.800]  you had, it won't impact your
[01:59:43.800 --> 01:59:45.280]  citizenship grade. Do you know what I mean?
[01:59:45.500 --> 01:59:47.740]  I'm warmed up to the idea of a citizenship grade.
[01:59:47.840 --> 01:59:49.880]  I had to have that growing up and it makes sense.
[01:59:50.340 --> 01:59:51.840]  I just wonder if there's a way where you
[01:59:51.840 --> 01:59:53.800]  also are acknowledging there are
[01:59:53.800 --> 01:59:56.060]  some learning experiences outside of the classroom.
[01:59:56.380 --> 01:59:57.580]  Absolutely. That can be helpful.
[01:59:58.020 --> 02:00:00.000]  I agree that there are
[02:00:00.000 --> 02:00:04.740]  Um, part of that was the, the carve out where the school could just not count it at all.
[02:00:05.220 --> 02:00:09.660]  And so that's, that's in there, but we could certainly take it a step where if it's past
[02:00:09.660 --> 02:00:11.600]  a certain number of days, you've got this option.
[02:00:11.600 --> 02:00:14.140]  If it's an educational experience, I think that's valid.
[02:00:14.440 --> 02:00:14.740]  Okay.
[02:00:15.000 --> 02:00:20.680]  It might be hard to apply it across all of your curriculum, but, but maybe like in a
[02:00:20.680 --> 02:00:21.280]  high school setting.
[02:00:22.560 --> 02:00:25.000]  Um, but that's a, oh, that's a good idea.
[02:00:25.000 --> 02:00:28.700]  And I also really like your test at option for core classes.
[02:00:28.880 --> 02:00:33.140]  Again, I think it's acknowledging for those high achiever kids who might be getting bored
[02:00:33.140 --> 02:00:37.480]  and stop coming, right, to say, why don't we get you on to the next level so you can
[02:00:37.480 --> 02:00:39.560]  be really developing your mastery in this.
[02:00:39.800 --> 02:00:40.380]  So thank you.
[02:00:40.500 --> 02:00:40.860]  I like that.
[02:00:41.420 --> 02:00:41.980]  Thank you.
[02:00:42.860 --> 02:00:43.400]  All right.
[02:00:43.440 --> 02:00:43.880]  Thank you.
[02:00:43.920 --> 02:00:46.080]  We'll move to Representative Faye.
[02:00:47.680 --> 02:00:48.500]  Yeah, thank you.
[02:00:48.560 --> 02:00:49.600]  Thank you for your work on this.
[02:00:49.600 --> 02:00:51.440]  I know we are all concerned.
[02:00:51.640 --> 02:00:53.920]  We want to make headway this year, if possible.
[02:00:54.640 --> 02:00:58.600]  I know we'll have other bills, so I don't think it's quite ready for prime time yet.
[02:00:58.740 --> 02:01:03.720]  but, um, I'm happy. I really like what you've come up with. I I'm with Candace. I would like
[02:01:03.720 --> 02:01:11.220]  to see us be a little bit more surgical with the opt out and also with makeup work. And then I,
[02:01:11.680 --> 02:01:18.480]  to add onto that, um, I guess when you are talking about core classes and missing class,
[02:01:18.480 --> 02:01:24.580]  like there's just so many different variable cases. Um, there's so many cases that a child,
[02:01:24.660 --> 02:01:28.780]  Like, I went to Germany and learned about World War II, you know,
[02:01:28.940 --> 02:01:32.080]  and now I'm back and we're having World War II unit
[02:01:32.080 --> 02:01:34.120]  and we're going on a family vacation now.
[02:01:34.280 --> 02:01:35.980]  Can I write a report on World War II?
[02:01:36.100 --> 02:01:38.940]  I'm just the one thinking, can we give teachers some flexibility and leeway?
[02:01:39.220 --> 02:01:40.260]  I think it's written in there,
[02:01:40.400 --> 02:01:46.060]  but just making sure that we're not locking it down too much for educators.
[02:01:47.320 --> 02:01:49.860]  If I may, Mr. Chair, there's...
[02:01:49.860 --> 02:01:50.280]  Go ahead.
[02:01:50.340 --> 02:01:52.160]  Just a thought on a couple things that have come up.
[02:01:52.860 --> 02:01:56.960]  I agree with all of those points, and I think flexibility for students.
[02:01:57.520 --> 02:02:03.760]  I would point out that that does put, we have a high burnout rate amongst our educators already.
[02:02:04.500 --> 02:02:10.640]  And so I'm happy to talk about those things, but when there's all these makeup options that you have to do,
[02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:19.320]  you're actually giving the teacher in the classroom significantly more work that they weren't required to do 10 years ago and 20 years ago.
[02:02:21.580 --> 02:02:25.880]  We have compensated them more recently, which I appreciate everybody for that, truly.
[02:02:26.100 --> 02:02:28.740]  But there is that aspect as well, too.
[02:02:28.800 --> 02:02:33.040]  And one of the difficulties and one of the reasons why educators want to solve this, it's not just grades and academics.
[02:02:33.040 --> 02:02:34.020]  That's the number one factor.
[02:02:34.140 --> 02:02:35.820]  But it is teacher burnout.
[02:02:36.480 --> 02:02:47.440]  When we allow kids to come when they want and miss when they want and they're gone for three weeks and then we have to try to catch them up to the rest of the class, that actually disadvantages the other students in the class.
[02:02:48.620 --> 02:02:53.000]  And so I don't want to, like, disadvantage someone who's going to Germany.
[02:02:53.140 --> 02:02:55.520]  I think that's amazing, and I think that there's probably a path forward.
[02:02:55.940 --> 02:02:59.480]  But that would be one thing that I would probably want to have some conversations offline
[02:02:59.480 --> 02:03:07.880]  on how we make sure that we're not putting a significantly larger workload on educators as well.
[02:03:09.360 --> 02:03:09.880]  All right.
[02:03:09.900 --> 02:03:10.420]  Thank you.
[02:03:10.420 --> 02:03:12.960]  We've got two more questions.
[02:03:13.280 --> 02:03:17.380]  We are starting to run out of time, so let's see if we can keep moving here.
[02:03:17.500 --> 02:03:22.600]  we'll go to representative box here. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like everyone else has said,
[02:03:22.640 --> 02:03:26.600]  this is something that's been top of mind for all of us and trying to work through the different
[02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:36.020]  ideas. One of the things that I am interested in is having a kid who can test out, you know,
[02:03:36.020 --> 02:03:41.100]  what does that actually look like? And, you know, the idea of being able to test out of an entire
[02:03:41.100 --> 02:03:47.480]  core class is interesting, but that also means that they haven't been learning that in school.
[02:03:47.500 --> 02:03:55.660]  and so if i if i look at my own kids who are high achieving um or at least this one specific one that
[02:03:55.660 --> 02:04:02.560]  i'm going to talk about he will grasp a concept like that but that doesn't mean he can test out
[02:04:02.560 --> 02:04:07.340]  of the whole entire grade you know it just means he might not need that whole week of reinforcement
[02:04:07.340 --> 02:04:15.400]  going on and so i wonder if we have this push to push kids into new grades or out of their class
[02:04:15.400 --> 02:04:21.800]  there's meaningful skills that they learn at grade level and age appropriate and I think there's lots
[02:04:21.800 --> 02:04:27.240]  of research that shows if we the kids who get moved ahead just intellectually don't necessarily
[02:04:27.240 --> 02:04:33.220]  get the same learning of social skills as they would if they stayed in their grades and so when
[02:04:33.220 --> 02:04:37.540]  I have been in the schools and talking to the teachers obviously absenteeism is a huge thing
[02:04:37.540 --> 02:04:43.200]  that comes up but I think like you were saying a lot of that burden is the makeup work that comes
[02:04:43.200 --> 02:04:49.440]  after. And so maybe it's not even absenteeism we need to look at. Maybe we need to look at our
[02:04:49.440 --> 02:04:55.840]  competency-based learning that we've gone to. Because when a student can miss
[02:04:55.840 --> 02:05:00.000]  weeks at a time and then show up and just be able to
[02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:05.680]  you know, do all the work then. I think that is the issue that they're not being able to stay up
[02:05:05.680 --> 02:05:10.000]  on it at the time. And then the teachers left at the end of the quarter, end of the trimester
[02:05:10.000 --> 02:05:15.020]  with all of this extra work that hasn't been able to be spread out across the class. So
[02:05:15.020 --> 02:05:21.100]  I would love to look at our competency-based learning model and also look at leveling our
[02:05:21.100 --> 02:05:26.900]  kids. Because I think a lot of the area where we are seeing absenteeism is in these high achieving
[02:05:26.900 --> 02:05:33.620]  kids. And so if there was a way for them to be challenged and to be grouped in different levels
[02:05:33.620 --> 02:05:39.600]  of their ability for each class, and I know that this happens, we learned about it at APA when we
[02:05:39.600 --> 02:05:44.860]  went there, that they do this there. And I know they do it in other schools as well. But that is
[02:05:44.860 --> 02:05:51.300]  a really great model for keeping kids engaged, keeping them wanting to go to school and doing
[02:05:51.300 --> 02:05:57.800]  fun things. And then also maybe just trying to take that scalpel effect for the parents who are
[02:05:57.800 --> 02:06:03.880]  not engaged, for the kids who are not on grade level and are missing because of that. And then
[02:06:03.880 --> 02:06:14.080]  I think one last thing that I was going to say is that, well, I don't know if I remember what I was
[02:06:14.080 --> 02:06:19.400]  going to say, actually. So anyway, I think this was good. I do think it is something that we need
[02:06:19.400 --> 02:06:23.800]  to to look at and i appreciate your work on it all right representative karen peterson
[02:06:24.840 --> 02:06:30.200]  thank you chara i'll be brave um i appreciate your thoughts about this um i i guess i'm gonna
[02:06:30.200 --> 02:06:36.840]  ask you the question i ask every time i read every bill do we need a bill like do do we can schools
[02:06:36.840 --> 02:06:43.960]  not already have a citizenship grade can they not already say part of your part of your grade is this
[02:06:43.960 --> 02:06:49.240]  is a discussion class we need you here in class can we not put that into disclosure at the beginning
[02:06:49.240 --> 02:06:53.120]  and tell a parent that's part of your student's grade that's how they're going to be evaluated
[02:06:53.120 --> 02:06:59.340]  that's part of the the nature of this course do we need a bill to have lea create a policy and
[02:06:59.340 --> 02:07:04.740]  tell them what their policy looks like or can they can they do this already uh no they can't
[02:07:04.740 --> 02:07:08.480]  they can't they cannot so there are certain classes that they do allow some attendance but
[02:07:08.480 --> 02:07:12.600]  they're very specific classes that they allow attendance the rest of them don't allow attendance
[02:07:12.600 --> 02:07:18.580]  and maybe jeff can check me if i'm wrong but i think we we pulled that out legislatively that
[02:07:18.580 --> 02:07:23.500]  you cannot have attendance be part of their grade okay that's a great clarification and then the
[02:07:23.500 --> 02:07:30.140]  second one is um so saying an lea shall adopt a policy that requires student attendance to account
[02:07:30.140 --> 02:07:36.480]  for 10 to 20 percent of the final grade i'm a little uncomfortable with telling a school how
[02:07:36.480 --> 02:07:43.260]  they have to grade people academically at the state level it feels a little micromanaging
[02:07:43.260 --> 02:07:47.800]  of our schools and also doesn't necessarily reflect that some of our different schools
[02:07:47.800 --> 02:07:52.820]  are doing different things like they might have a different way of wanting to quantify a school
[02:07:52.820 --> 02:07:56.940]  a student's grades you know you think of especially some of our really unique charter schools so
[02:07:56.940 --> 02:08:03.240]  those are my concerns that's fair if i may mr chair yeah please do uh uh that is something that
[02:08:03.240 --> 02:08:07.440]  i was aware that that was a discussion point on the on the shell on that uh some of that is probably
[02:08:07.440 --> 02:08:15.760]  uh as a teacher not wanting uh an lea to who hasn't been in the classroom for 20 years to say
[02:08:15.760 --> 02:08:20.220]  no you don't have to do this while not realizing the reality and so some of this is more for the
[02:08:20.220 --> 02:08:29.120]  teachers but that can certainly be taken out and just say up to 20 percent um or or yeah we can
[02:08:29.120 --> 02:08:34.000]  massage that a little bit for sure okay thank you all right uh represent wilton you got a lot of
[02:08:34.000 --> 02:08:39.660]  feedback i know you're this is an important issue thanks for uh thanks for bringing the issue thanks
[02:08:39.660 --> 02:08:45.200]  for allowing us the discussion we're going to move to agenda number nine uh draft legislation
[02:08:45.200 --> 02:08:49.320]  Education Testing Amendments, and we'll turn the time to Representative Lisenby.
[02:08:49.400 --> 02:08:50.280]  Are you going to move?
[02:08:50.480 --> 02:08:50.880]  All right.
[02:08:50.920 --> 02:08:51.320]  Very good.
[02:08:53.260 --> 02:08:59.620]  While she's making that move, if you have feedback for, comments, questions, additional
[02:08:59.620 --> 02:09:02.740]  follow-up for Representative Welton, feel free to reach out to him.
[02:09:03.080 --> 02:09:06.520]  I do expect we'll see this bill early in the 2026 session.
[02:09:07.320 --> 02:09:07.660]  All right.
[02:09:08.440 --> 02:09:10.140]  Representative Lisenby, time is yours.
[02:09:10.800 --> 02:09:12.080]  Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[02:09:14.080 --> 02:09:19.680]  get the bill up. Would you like to introduce your guest also? I would. This is Matt Throckmorton.
[02:09:20.020 --> 02:09:29.420]  He is a former house member in Utah and it's been a few years, but 20 plus, but I knew him back in
[02:09:29.420 --> 02:09:35.020]  the day when he was serving in the house in Utah and he was a great legislator and I'm grateful
[02:09:35.020 --> 02:09:43.860]  for his work with me on this. So just to give you some background information on why this bill,
[02:09:44.080 --> 02:09:47.580]  And to preemptively answer Representative Peterson's question,
[02:09:48.000 --> 02:09:49.520]  yeah, we have to have a bill.
[02:09:54.200 --> 02:10:00.000]  So our current end-of-year tests demonstrate how well teachers are teaching students.
[02:10:00.000 --> 02:10:07.260]  standards. But this bill would shift the focus to how well students are learning the standards by
[02:10:07.260 --> 02:10:12.960]  providing the deep standard-based report that can inform the teacher, parent, and school.
[02:10:14.380 --> 02:10:21.780]  So many LEAs are providing internal formative assessments, but then must provide additional
[02:10:21.780 --> 02:10:27.360]  summative assessments. And the pilot program provides the same proficiency information,
[02:10:27.360 --> 02:10:30.260]  though it reduces that additional test.
[02:10:31.180 --> 02:10:37.100]  Currently, some schools are also administering a formative assessment at the beginning and middle.
[02:10:37.260 --> 02:10:42.600]  Then, to reduce test fatigue, they do not administer the formative assessment at the end,
[02:10:42.620 --> 02:10:45.080]  so they only show growth for half the year.
[02:10:45.820 --> 02:10:53.280]  So this pilot program would allow for a seamless demonstration of both formative and summative data.
[02:10:53.820 --> 02:10:59.760]  Since the creation of Utah's accountability system, there have been several major changes.
[02:11:00.480 --> 02:11:05.400]  What most policymakers are not aware of is the history of assessments in Utah.
[02:11:05.400 --> 02:11:12.160]  Back in 2004, Utah almost adopted a national norm-referenced assessment, though at the
[02:11:12.160 --> 02:11:18.080]  last moment it was decided to provide all of the funding to the State Office of Education
[02:11:18.080 --> 02:11:19.880]  to develop the end-of-year test.
[02:11:21.020 --> 02:11:29.920]  Adopting a norm-referenced assessment failed by just a couple of votes, and many of these assessments have been used since the 1970s or before.
[02:11:30.800 --> 02:11:49.140]  One of the advantages of a nationally norm-referenced assessment is to immediately understand student growth in comparison to nationwide peers, and the current system only compares proficiency statewide, so tools such as the NAEP are used to inform performance nationally.
[02:11:50.660 --> 02:12:10.760]  So with the administration having issued an executive order specifically to increase flexibility, we've communicated directly with U.S. Department of Education on this legislation, and the requirements of federal law are to establish and maintain accountability, an accountability system based upon proficiency.
[02:12:10.760 --> 02:12:14.420]  So this pilot program doesn't alter that in any way.
[02:12:14.620 --> 02:12:16.320]  So there's no conflict there.
[02:12:16.740 --> 02:12:22.380]  The priorities of the EO were to ensure transparency and accountability are maintained.
[02:12:23.440 --> 02:12:27.960]  And we have a direct contact with the Deputy U.S. Secretary of Education on this issue.
[02:12:28.060 --> 02:12:34.200]  And we are not asking for an endorsement of this legislation, just assurances that Utah remains in full compliance.
[02:12:36.340 --> 02:12:44.680]  And then, let's see, I did want to make sure, just to reiterate, our conversations with the
[02:12:44.680 --> 02:12:50.740]  U.S. Department of Education show that students will count towards the 95% threshold if they
[02:12:50.740 --> 02:12:58.020]  participate in this pilot, so they will not be considered opt-outs. Just a few other things,
[02:12:58.180 --> 02:13:04.120]  the participating LEAs and charters for this pilot program will not receive state appropriation,
[02:13:04.120 --> 02:13:06.800]  So they will pay for the assessments themselves.
[02:13:08.260 --> 02:13:15.600]  And then up to 10% of districts, schools, and 35% of charters can participate.
[02:13:16.400 --> 02:13:20.600]  But after 2029, it increases to 20% and 50%.
[02:13:20.600 --> 02:13:27.020]  Test takers are not considered opt-outs again, and the results must be published within 60 days
[02:13:27.020 --> 02:13:30.300]  and are shared with the Education Interim Committee every year.
[02:13:30.580 --> 02:13:37.180]  so it does not, again, alter the accountability system in any way, and I know we're kind of short
[02:13:37.180 --> 02:13:42.200]  on time, so I'm going to turn a little bit of time over to Matt, and then we'll take questions.
[02:13:44.020 --> 02:13:50.260]  Thank you, Matt Throckmorton. So I approach this having been, so every chance I get to talk about
[02:13:50.260 --> 02:13:54.540]  the Utah Military Academy, I always drop that one. They're an awesome school, but I approach it from
[02:13:54.540 --> 02:13:59.340]  having run that, and some of the challenges that we would see is, you know, especially with the
[02:13:59.340 --> 02:14:03.980]  challenging population is that you have the end of the year, which is really, I don't, you know,
[02:14:03.980 --> 02:14:08.000]  it's kind of a little challenging word, but it's a little bit of a postmortem, right? What does a
[02:14:08.000 --> 02:14:11.500]  teacher want to see? A teacher wants to see how much growth they've had throughout the year.
[02:14:11.660 --> 02:14:15.380]  And as Representative Liz and be pointed out, there's some really great internal
[02:14:15.380 --> 02:14:22.580]  tools that are considered by state law and LEA specific exam. And you do at the beginning of the
[02:14:22.580 --> 02:14:25.860]  year, middle of the year, the end of the year. And if you do it at the end of the year, then you're
[02:14:25.860 --> 02:14:31.120]  asking students to take both your internal exam as well as the end of your exam. And then for a
[02:14:31.120 --> 02:14:35.820]  lot of your students, and it shows up in all schools, in a smaller school that I would see
[02:14:35.820 --> 02:14:40.780]  firsthand, is you also have a lot of high-end students that are also taking, you know, advanced
[02:14:40.780 --> 02:14:47.500]  placement courses and such, even in the 10th grade. And so with this, the State Board of
[02:14:47.500 --> 02:14:53.180]  Education will issue an RFP. They'll select at least one, possibly more providers, and that they
[02:14:53.180 --> 02:15:00.000]  will ensure that statistically significant and valid data will convert from the RIT scores of the
[02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:04.300]  national norm reference into the state's accountability system. And so as she mentioned,
[02:15:04.700 --> 02:15:09.700]  like we're not cracking into the accountability at all. In fact, this ties in seamlessly to the
[02:15:09.700 --> 02:15:14.860]  accountability. It just becomes a very friendly tool for teachers, for classrooms, for students.
[02:15:15.380 --> 02:15:19.600]  And some of these assessments, you know, the accountability, the proficiency at the end of
[02:15:19.600 --> 02:15:25.440]  the test, they get a one, two, three, or four. And with a lot of these, like the NWEA, which we used
[02:15:25.440 --> 02:15:30.620]  very successfully what they'll do is you can take an individual student and they'll have a line and
[02:15:30.620 --> 02:15:35.260]  above that line it'll list every single state standard that the student has mastered below the
[02:15:35.260 --> 02:15:40.320]  line it'll show every standard that they have not and so a teacher can develop a very specific plan
[02:15:40.320 --> 02:15:45.480]  for that student or conversely they can take a standard and it'll have a line above the line
[02:15:45.480 --> 02:15:49.540]  it'll show every student that that knows the standard and below the line every student that
[02:15:49.540 --> 02:15:55.860]  doesn't. So then a teacher can create a, you know, a pool to address just those students that are
[02:15:55.860 --> 02:15:59.620]  struggling. And doing it at the beginning, middle, and the end of the year, it'll show growth,
[02:15:59.860 --> 02:16:05.940]  tremendous tool for growth for teachers and such. And I emphasize that we have been in contact with
[02:16:05.940 --> 02:16:10.520]  the U.S. Department of Education. I know this has been discussed a lot, not just here. I did a lot
[02:16:10.520 --> 02:16:14.700]  of work in Tennessee, and it was discussed that they wanted greater flexibility at the end of the
[02:16:14.700 --> 02:16:19.440]  year. The concern was always, well, if we do this, the feds are going to, you know, drop rocks on us.
[02:16:19.540 --> 02:16:24.180]  But we've been assured that this falls in with the flexibility actually granted
[02:16:24.180 --> 02:16:27.600]  during the Obama administration, and we don't touch the accountability.
[02:16:28.400 --> 02:16:33.200]  There's no fiscal note, and we do a pilot program so we can kind of ease into this,
[02:16:33.700 --> 02:16:35.560]  and I think it'll be very successful.
[02:16:38.080 --> 02:16:38.760]  All right.
[02:16:38.880 --> 02:16:39.860]  Does that conclude your presentation?
[02:16:40.180 --> 02:16:40.460]  It does.
[02:16:40.560 --> 02:16:41.320]  Thank you, Mr. Chair.
[02:16:41.580 --> 02:16:42.020]  All right.
[02:16:42.040 --> 02:16:42.360]  Thank you.
[02:16:42.380 --> 02:16:43.960]  I've got a couple of questions for you.
[02:16:44.300 --> 02:16:45.060]  Representative Faye.
[02:16:45.940 --> 02:16:46.600]  Yes, thank you.
[02:16:46.600 --> 02:16:55.500]  My first question is, how many assessments out exist that will probably breach the standard that this committee could approve?
[02:16:56.240 --> 02:16:57.580]  There's a number. Do you want?
[02:16:58.140 --> 02:17:05.120]  Yeah. So the states of Florida and Arizona have gone this direction, and the numbers like Florida has a much broader list.
[02:17:05.340 --> 02:17:06.680]  It's 12 to 15.
[02:17:07.540 --> 02:17:13.580]  Our discussions internally with the good folks at the state board is, you know, it's probably just a couple of few.
[02:17:13.580 --> 02:17:18.780]  this was drafted for one or more, but I'd love for it to be one, but we can't draft legislation
[02:17:18.780 --> 02:17:27.660]  that specifies one. Follow up, if I may. So you mentioned flexibility. I'm just wondering some
[02:17:27.660 --> 02:17:33.680]  of the other advantages to having options. What are some of the advantages that you see for LEAs
[02:17:33.680 --> 02:17:39.200]  for choosing an alternative test? Well, I think one of the main advantages for students is just
[02:17:39.200 --> 02:17:44.220]  to reduce that testing fatigue and then for teachers to have that classroom time set aside
[02:17:44.220 --> 02:17:50.140]  for instruction rather than extra assessments would be helpful um as far as administration
[02:17:50.140 --> 02:17:57.020]  i can't think of any buy-in you know it's you in the charter school universe there's so many
[02:17:57.020 --> 02:18:01.760]  different and even in the district they use so many different internal lea specific assessments
[02:18:01.760 --> 02:18:07.100]  and and you've got their their academic team they study it they spend months on it they do site
[02:18:07.100 --> 02:18:10.940]  visits they look at other schools and at the end they're like holy cow this is going to work for us
[02:18:10.940 --> 02:18:15.460]  and when you do that you get all i don't have to explain all the benefits of buy-in but you get
[02:18:15.460 --> 02:18:20.060]  that and what i anticipate here is that when the state office is done with their work going through
[02:18:20.060 --> 02:18:25.600]  the rfp process and they have one or more options everybody i hope takes a really hard look at it
[02:18:25.600 --> 02:18:30.140]  and i hope it's a total cattle call to fill up these spots but then we're going to have really
[02:18:30.140 --> 02:18:35.620]  engaged and that'll translate all the way down into the classroom i mean let's be realistic one
[02:18:35.620 --> 02:18:39.220]  of the things we've all heard is that sometimes if a teacher doesn't agree with something,
[02:18:39.780 --> 02:18:43.140]  you know, it's the industry standard. They'll just close the door and do what they need to
[02:18:43.140 --> 02:18:49.380]  believe. But when they bought into it, you've got just that wholehearted engagement. You just see
[02:18:49.380 --> 02:18:54.140]  this in a lot of ways. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. All right, folks, we've got a lot of lights.
[02:18:54.140 --> 02:19:00.060]  We actually have, we do have two agenda items left. So very brief, Representative Prucci.
[02:19:00.320 --> 02:19:03.960]  Thank you. And I appreciate this. I'm very familiar with it because in the Utah Fits All
[02:19:03.960 --> 02:19:09.600]  program we have an option of a norm reference assessment i guess can you just walk through
[02:19:09.600 --> 02:19:16.120]  logistically the impact of this it would be you can just take a norm reference test you don't have
[02:19:16.120 --> 02:19:21.260]  to do what are the tests that it would be substituting out does that make sense not have
[02:19:21.260 --> 02:19:27.160]  to do the statewide assessment okay summative that's what i was asking and in terms of time
[02:19:27.160 --> 02:19:32.860]  in the class do you know the difference of say a norm test versus one of those state tests like
[02:19:32.860 --> 02:19:38.760]  hours in the classroom yeah i need to be careful on this just from my own experience i know and and
[02:19:38.760 --> 02:19:43.840]  i talked to the national policy people at nwea and i asked him this question you know how many
[02:19:43.840 --> 02:19:48.760]  what percentage of the average test takers are completed in 30 minutes 45 minutes they're guessing
[02:19:48.760 --> 02:19:54.640]  that over half of the kids are done in 30 minutes and 90 are done in 45 minutes and our experience
[02:19:54.640 --> 02:20:00.000]  in administering the the state end of your test is they typically go longer but even in the test
[02:20:00.000 --> 02:20:05.040]  itself when you go longer you run into test fatigue right yeah and every teacher every test
[02:20:05.040 --> 02:20:09.380]  administrator will tell you towards the end of the test you start getting the bing answers they
[02:20:09.380 --> 02:20:14.780]  just start hitting a because the kid's done yeah and so it's a shorter period of time okay thank
[02:20:14.780 --> 02:20:22.520]  you that's helpful appreciate it all right thank you representative moss thank you i've heard this
[02:20:22.520 --> 02:20:28.720]  now in two or three presentations well then teachers can just do another test for kids
[02:20:28.720 --> 02:20:35.380]  teachers you know i mean putting more on them they have to do an alternative test just like
[02:20:35.380 --> 02:20:40.900]  we talked about alternative projects and citizenship and so on i mean how does
[02:20:40.900 --> 02:20:47.340]  when you say there's no fiscal note but then this would require teachers to do other tests
[02:20:47.340 --> 02:20:53.200]  for kids that you know i get that maybe there's too much testing but i'm do you take that into
[02:20:53.200 --> 02:20:59.480]  consideration isn't just like, here's another thing for teachers to do. So representative
[02:20:59.480 --> 02:21:03.500]  Moss, thank you for the question. I think that really opens up a really great conversation line.
[02:21:03.580 --> 02:21:08.460]  And that is, this doesn't create more work for teachers to do. Teachers are teaching to the
[02:21:08.460 --> 02:21:15.180]  standards. This just simply tests to the standards. And it's not an additional test. It's a replacement
[02:21:15.180 --> 02:21:22.520]  of a test. But somewhere along the line, you said, and then teachers could create another test.
[02:21:23.200 --> 02:21:25.220]  No, I think you maybe misheard.
[02:21:25.220 --> 02:21:28.300]  I think what was said, and maybe I'm misunderstanding,
[02:21:29.100 --> 02:21:35.340]  was that teachers could then formulate some classroom experiences for students
[02:21:35.340 --> 02:21:39.500]  that the test shows are behind in certain standards areas.
[02:21:39.700 --> 02:21:43.080]  But still it's requiring more work for teachers.
[02:21:43.460 --> 02:21:48.980]  Well, no, I would think teachers would want to have the data to show which students are ahead
[02:21:48.980 --> 02:21:51.360]  and which students are behind with reference to the standards
[02:21:51.360 --> 02:21:56.560]  so that they could then craft specific curriculum and classroom experiences
[02:21:56.560 --> 02:22:02.440]  to help their students come into compliance or to...
[02:22:02.440 --> 02:22:12.040]  Thank you for proposing this, but please consult teachers when you do legislation like this.
[02:22:12.040 --> 02:22:14.500]  We did, and teachers are supportive.
[02:22:14.740 --> 02:22:17.880]  They want the data that actually helps them teach their students.
[02:22:18.640 --> 02:22:21.180]  Representative Marks, if I could just add really quick.
[02:22:21.360 --> 02:22:31.400]  A lot of schools, maybe a majority of school districts, but I know in the charter universe, most of them are doing some kind of a formative, you know, so they're beginning, middle of the year.
[02:22:31.520 --> 02:22:36.060]  So this would, by the school's choice, this would replace that so it's not a new test.
[02:22:36.140 --> 02:22:37.560]  And then I explained the line.
[02:22:37.960 --> 02:22:44.420]  I was just trying to convey the depth of information that a teacher can receive as they're doing instruction throughout the rest of the year.
[02:22:44.960 --> 02:22:50.080]  All right, folks, we've got one more comment, and we'd like to try and squeeze in these last two items.
[02:22:50.080 --> 02:22:54.340]  so I'm going to go to represent box here. Thanks, Mr. Terry. And I've talked a lot. I'll try not to
[02:22:54.340 --> 02:23:00.740]  say anything after this, but, um, I really, really love this idea. Something that we all know of if
[02:23:00.740 --> 02:23:05.800]  we have kids is that they spend weeks studying for those statewide tests that we have already.
[02:23:06.140 --> 02:23:11.160]  And they are so stressed out because they don't know what's on those tests. Um, the tests are
[02:23:11.160 --> 02:23:18.040]  adaptable based off of how the kids are answering their questions. And so it's not really a good
[02:23:18.040 --> 02:23:24.700]  marker to know what the kids have learned in their class when you don't have a uniform test.
[02:23:25.460 --> 02:23:33.160]  And I think because the students are already getting tests that show them the same exact data
[02:23:33.160 --> 02:23:39.020]  in classes right now of where they are not proficient in the standards, teachers are used
[02:23:39.020 --> 02:23:45.340]  to this software already and they use it to target reteaching for their students. So this isn't any
[02:23:45.340 --> 02:23:50.300]  new information that would be coming along this would be going hand in hand with what their process
[02:23:50.300 --> 02:23:56.860]  already is but then creating so much more time in the classroom for learning rather than just
[02:23:56.860 --> 02:24:04.320]  studying to a test so thank you for bringing this to legislation very briefly go ahead to add to
[02:24:04.320 --> 02:24:09.160]  that you know we all know that when it comes to assessment part of what we're assessing is the
[02:24:09.160 --> 02:24:13.360]  student's ability to just navigate a computer right and that alone could affect the outcome
[02:24:13.360 --> 02:24:19.460]  And when you're doing this three different times, the kids get a great comfort, greater comfort level, and they just perform better.
[02:24:19.720 --> 02:24:23.020]  And that reduces the stress they feel when they're going to take it again.
[02:24:23.100 --> 02:24:25.040]  It's just a much better way.
[02:24:25.980 --> 02:24:26.600]  All right.
[02:24:26.640 --> 02:24:27.720]  Thank you to the members of the committee.
[02:24:27.840 --> 02:24:30.140]  We've got a great discussion going on here.
[02:24:30.200 --> 02:24:34.780]  If you have additional feedback or comments for Representative Elizabeth, please feel free to reach out.
[02:24:35.200 --> 02:24:39.160]  The proposed legislation is online, and she'd love to have your feedback.
[02:24:39.380 --> 02:24:41.000]  We're going to move to item number 10.
[02:24:41.360 --> 02:24:41.860]  Yep, go ahead.
[02:24:41.860 --> 02:24:47.320]  i was hoping we would have a vote today is that not we didn't have that on the agenda we didn't
[02:24:47.320 --> 02:24:52.720]  notice it as a oh i see sorry about sorry about that representative
[02:24:52.720 --> 02:25:00.000]  okay
[02:25:00.000 --> 02:25:10.620]  yes go ahead was it excuse me is the mic on okay it is now so to take action wasn't this
[02:25:10.620 --> 02:25:15.020]  notice 24 hours in advance it was we'd have to go through public comment and then we could take
[02:25:15.020 --> 02:25:23.200]  action so i mean i'm sensitive to the committee's time but if we could that would be is there a way
[02:25:23.200 --> 02:25:31.640]  ask for public comment yeah that passed excuse me huh so i think part of the question is uh i think
[02:25:31.640 --> 02:25:35.580]  there we're we've got a good good comment here from representative peterson if there's going to
[02:25:35.580 --> 02:25:40.540]  be no votes it's going to be the same process so i think the question is is there's any no votes
[02:25:40.540 --> 02:25:44.440]  then the process will it'll have to go back to committee unless it's unanimous so there would
[02:25:44.440 --> 02:25:51.040]  be essentially no change in the outcome okay so i was that all right representative okay thank you
[02:25:51.040 --> 02:25:56.160]  represent Elizabeth Elizabeth all right we'll turn the time to representative Hall for item number 10
[02:25:56.160 --> 02:26:00.680]  survey results student participation in high school sports and I think you may have some
[02:26:00.680 --> 02:26:06.160]  staff support but I'll let you go ahead and plead out here thank you thank you I miss my old
[02:26:06.160 --> 02:26:13.400]  committee you guys are awesome we miss having you as well um so I just wanted there's no bill right
[02:26:13.400 --> 02:26:20.920]  now or anything I do have a bill um file open for this um but what this is is I had a coach who came
[02:26:20.920 --> 02:26:26.320]  to me, um, in the spring and said, I have lots of concerns with what's going on with sports in high
[02:26:26.320 --> 02:26:34.420]  school. Um, basically lots of injuries, not being able to retain coaches, having, um, not enough
[02:26:34.420 --> 02:26:40.300]  time for families, not enough time for, for, uh, kids to be able to play two sports because one
[02:26:40.300 --> 02:26:45.720]  sport is dominating during the time when the other sport is going. And so as we brought it to the,
[02:26:45.720 --> 02:26:53.640]  to uhsaa um they were like well is is this is your district the only one that feels this way maybe you
[02:26:53.640 --> 02:26:59.460]  should ask other districts and so we were like great let's have a survey so awesome finn and
[02:26:59.460 --> 02:27:06.040]  awesome mike came up with a survey sent it out to everyone and you guys will be shocked at how many
[02:27:06.040 --> 02:27:13.460]  people we had respond we had over 8 000 responses when we sent this out that's amazing to me but
[02:27:13.460 --> 02:27:19.220]  Anyway, Finn has the results he's going to present real quick, and then, you know, that's kind of it.
[02:27:19.220 --> 02:27:20.200]  All right, go ahead.
[02:27:22.580 --> 02:27:25.100]  Thank you, Finn Rose with LRGC.
[02:27:25.580 --> 02:27:39.160]  So, as Representative Hall was saying, this was a collaborative effort to see where parents, teachers, coaches, administrators all fall on a couple of key policy concepts.
[02:27:39.640 --> 02:27:54.880]  So adding a third all sport moratorium toward the end of the traditional school year, either limiting school sponsored offseason participation or extending sport specific moratoria and standardizing the two week prior rule and reducing weekly practice limits from 20 to 15 hours.
[02:27:54.880 --> 02:28:01.700]  So those were kind of the three policy concepts that were proposed and also evaluated.
[02:28:02.240 --> 02:28:12.140]  And so we had a count response of 8,300 total responses across all of the regions in Utah
[02:28:12.140 --> 02:28:15.200]  and categorized by their athletic regions.
[02:28:16.380 --> 02:28:20.780]  And with that, this includes parents, teachers, coaches, and administrators.
[02:28:22.340 --> 02:28:23.700]  I'm going to move quickly.
[02:28:24.280 --> 02:28:32.260]  So this is by respondent type, so parents, student-athletes, teachers or administrator who is not a coach, and then we also have a coach who is not a parent.
[02:28:33.140 --> 02:28:38.580]  And you'll notice that the parent is including a parent who is also a coach or teaches, so we try to encapsulate everybody.
[02:28:40.600 --> 02:28:50.620]  So this first slide looks at student-athletes, how often do your high school sports time commitments interfere with your ability to participate in other academic, extracurricular, or outside of school activities.
[02:28:51.220 --> 02:28:54.580]  And we go from very rarely to very often, 950 total responses.
[02:28:55.220 --> 02:29:02.640]  And you see most of the responses ended up in that middle category there of somewhat, but not overly burdensome.
[02:29:04.840 --> 02:29:07.080]  This one reflected of parents.
[02:29:07.660 --> 02:29:12.980]  So as you'll notice, there's a massive increase in total number of responses.
[02:29:14.040 --> 02:29:17.720]  And this is how often do your child's high school sports time commitments interfere with your ability,
[02:29:18.420 --> 02:29:31.500]  With the ability of your child and family to participate in other academic, extracurricular outside school activities, you'll notice again that that third column sees the most responses, but it is pretty fairly evenly spread.
[02:29:33.580 --> 02:29:46.540]  Teachers and administrators also answered the same question, and again, the trend line shows that they were that middle category, and that's kind of indicative of everyone else.
[02:29:47.380 --> 02:29:55.740]  So coaches were asked how often does it interfere with their time and their family's time and
[02:29:55.740 --> 02:30:00.000]  ability to participate because we want to be mindful of, you know, the work.
[02:30:00.000 --> 02:30:05.900]  that coaches do in the time and effort that they dedicate to students. And they, again,
[02:30:06.120 --> 02:30:11.200]  I'm not surprising, I'm a broken record at this point. That middle category saw the most
[02:30:11.200 --> 02:30:16.260]  responses from very rarely to very often. So just wanted to note that difference in the trend line
[02:30:16.260 --> 02:30:24.380]  there. And then coaches, again, we'll skip that one. And then all responses. So we asked, what do
[02:30:24.380 --> 02:30:28.520]  you think, this is where we started talking about the policies that were presented to them.
[02:30:29.400 --> 02:30:37.580]  And we did this based on all response types just to show the overall trend line due to time, but we have more information on that if you all are interested.
[02:30:38.080 --> 02:30:50.680]  But you see strongly opposed to strongly support, and there is a massive jump between – there is appetite to see the implementing of a defined sports season and off seasons.
[02:30:51.860 --> 02:31:04.740]  Similarly, we see the same kind of results when looking at adding another all-sport more touring at the end of the school year in late May slash early June, so a two-week period where no activities can take place.
[02:31:07.340 --> 02:31:21.640]  And then this last question dealt with the 20 to 50, moving from 20 hours of, there's a weekly practice limit already established, and it's set at 20 hours, and that would be looking at lowering it to a 15-hour threshold.
[02:31:21.860 --> 02:31:29.960]  And again, this one, you saw a little bit more scattered response, but again, mostly a strongly support outcome there.
[02:31:31.260 --> 02:31:34.300]  This slide just goes by number of comments by region and commenter.
[02:31:34.300 --> 02:31:44.880]  We did have a question of allowing parents, teachers, student athletes the opportunity to ask anything additional or give additional feedback on anything that they would like.
[02:31:46.260 --> 02:31:47.940]  And this kind of breaks down the numbers there.
[02:31:48.460 --> 02:31:53.900]  And this last slide is, and it's kind of off screen here, but sorry.
[02:31:55.640 --> 02:31:58.920]  This last due to time, we just did the summary of comments by parents.
[02:31:58.920 --> 02:32:05.180]  This is also because parents were the largest group to comment on the survey and policies
[02:32:05.180 --> 02:32:05.840]  within that.
[02:32:05.940 --> 02:32:11.800]  But you see some mixed results there, but a lot of these categories indicate strong preference
[02:32:11.800 --> 02:32:16.420]  to evaluating or at least taking a look at the policies that are currently in place and
[02:32:16.420 --> 02:32:23.620]  seeing what might make sense as the state looks at priorities. So that's a run through of the data
[02:32:23.620 --> 02:32:28.280]  and if there's anything else. Thank you, Finn. Do you mind if I make another quick comment?
[02:32:29.000 --> 02:32:38.560]  So we presented this information to UHSAA and already they, I just got word that they have
[02:32:38.560 --> 02:32:43.480]  decided to implement another moratorium. So that's a good thing. I think it's a first step
[02:32:43.480 --> 02:32:48.720]  in the right direction there are still a couple of more categories where i think we can do a little
[02:32:48.720 --> 02:32:54.060]  more work i have a bill file open um i'm willing to work with all the sides and take all the input
[02:32:54.060 --> 02:32:59.860]  from everyone um i just wanted everybody to kind of be aware that this is coming i do have the coach
[02:32:59.860 --> 02:33:07.560]  that that brought this to me online if he can have 60 seconds chair but if not then then i totally
[02:33:07.560 --> 02:33:13.840]  understand. Do we have 60 seconds for a comment? Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, if there's anybody
[02:33:13.840 --> 02:33:19.080]  that would like to make a comment, so go ahead. Well, I think, um, is Corb online? Is it somebody
[02:33:19.080 --> 02:33:25.820]  online? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Go ahead. Thank you. So whoever would you, I don't know if you can,
[02:33:25.880 --> 02:33:32.000]  or if they will introduce themselves. It's Rick Corbridge. He is an athletic director at a high
[02:33:32.000 --> 02:33:41.240]  school in my area okay great thank you go ahead Rick when you're ready Rick
[02:33:41.240 --> 02:33:47.240]  you're on mute and you'll need to turn your video on
[02:33:51.580 --> 02:33:55.280]  Rick I don't know if you can hear us but you need to turn your video on and
[02:33:55.280 --> 02:34:00.680]  unmute okay can you hear me now yes can you turn your video okay I'm trying it's
[02:34:00.680 --> 02:34:06.900]  not working real well so uh there we go okay uh my name is rick corvidge athletic director
[02:34:06.900 --> 02:34:12.580]  bonneville high school um i reached out to katie our concern my concern um and i reached out to
[02:34:12.580 --> 02:34:17.680]  some other administrators and athletic directors is just the strain is putting on coaches um and
[02:34:17.680 --> 02:34:22.340]  kids mainly we've got to we've got to try to protect our coaches from themselves it's kind
[02:34:22.340 --> 02:34:27.940]  of a big part of it as we saw from those that they don't feel the issue at hand um i've had to
[02:34:27.940 --> 02:34:33.880]  hired 21 new coaches in the past three years um at bonneville high school because of not having
[02:34:33.880 --> 02:34:37.700]  they're they're not staying in the profession which means we're not gaining the connections
[02:34:37.700 --> 02:34:43.080]  with the kids um and then these kids are we're requiring a lot of them and a lot of them doing
[02:34:43.080 --> 02:34:48.680]  the comp sports as well and and the two groups and entities aren't don't work together we can't
[02:34:48.680 --> 02:34:53.900]  control the the comp sports but we can we can look at ways to help to minimize the strain and
[02:34:53.900 --> 02:35:00.000]  stress that's put on on these kids. The Utah High School has been great looking at this to try to
[02:35:00.000 --> 02:35:05.560]  see. I just want to make sure everybody understands the importance of athletics in the high schools
[02:35:05.560 --> 02:35:10.240]  and how well it helps kids to get grades and to go to school. And I heard some of the other
[02:35:10.240 --> 02:35:15.000]  comments on the other bills of they're not attending. We have a better opportunity to get
[02:35:15.000 --> 02:35:21.440]  kids to attend school when they're participating on activities. So I want to make sure that we're
[02:35:21.440 --> 02:35:25.400]  not, because if we push to the extreme, this could get rid of athletics in the high school,
[02:35:25.400 --> 02:35:29.940]  which is something we don't want to have happen because of what it does for them.
[02:35:30.000 --> 02:35:35.300]  um but something's got to change we've we've gone to the far side we've just got to bring back and
[02:35:35.300 --> 02:35:42.680]  get a balance of what we need in in time and effort by coaches parents and kids all right
[02:35:42.680 --> 02:35:46.320]  thank you for your comments um appreciate the committee's time on this this is something that's
[02:35:46.320 --> 02:35:50.440]  been really important to representative hall if you have additional comments or feedback in the
[02:35:50.440 --> 02:35:54.180]  interest of time and we invite you to reach out to representative hall she's working on this
[02:35:54.180 --> 02:36:00.260]  this is an important issue so all right um i know some of you uh need to be moving but we're going
[02:36:00.260 --> 02:36:05.220]  to give just a few minutes for the working group on school violence which is our final agenda item
[02:36:05.220 --> 02:36:12.740]  and uh we'll let them provide their report after which we'll adjourn our meeting so we welcome
[02:36:12.740 --> 02:36:19.940]  the utah commission on criminal and juvenile justice staff van nguyen uh director and juvenile
[02:36:19.940 --> 02:36:26.180]  justice policy director juvenile justice policy and research and pam vrickery chair juvenile
[02:36:26.180 --> 02:36:32.980]  justice oversight committee thank you thank you chair and committee members we will be super brief
[02:36:32.980 --> 02:36:38.420]  um we did prepare just a little presentation and i think some of y'all may have some um emails
[02:36:38.420 --> 02:36:43.380]  received about certain slides of the presentations but really the first couple of slides really just
[02:36:43.380 --> 02:36:48.340]  helps us um introduce ourselves as part of the commission on criminal juvenile justice
[02:36:48.900 --> 02:36:51.240]  as well as the Juvenile Justice Oversight Committee,
[02:36:51.240 --> 02:36:54.440]  which is statutory responsible for overseeing implementation
[02:36:54.440 --> 02:36:55.940]  of juvenile justice policies.
[02:36:55.940 --> 02:36:59.080]  And these first couple of slides just show the general membership
[02:36:59.080 --> 02:37:02.300]  of this group, as well as the various working groups
[02:37:02.300 --> 02:37:07.040]  that our committee has been asked to facilitate
[02:37:07.040 --> 02:37:08.860]  with different topic areas.
[02:37:08.860 --> 02:37:12.640]  And then we just want to showcase a couple of the statutory reporting
[02:37:12.640 --> 02:37:15.560]  that the legislators requires us to report on.
[02:37:15.560 --> 02:37:21.320]  And this is based on data that we receive from the juvenile court as well as the Juvenile Justice Youth Services.
[02:37:22.100 --> 02:37:31.040]  We provide some general trends and information of our latest reports as well as some highlights of different offenses, including serious offenses.
[02:37:31.240 --> 02:37:34.800]  So these will be your violent felonies, firearms, and theft of a firearm.
[02:37:35.220 --> 02:37:40.780]  And again, this data is received and collected from the administrative office of the courts,
[02:37:40.780 --> 02:37:48.460]  meaning once the offense is charged and referred to court, this is the data that will reflect that.
[02:37:48.840 --> 02:37:55.440]  And sometimes there are nuances to the data as well as meaning something that may have happened at the school or school district.
[02:37:55.640 --> 02:38:03.620]  And depending on how the law enforcement responded, what was referred and what was ultimately charged may look different once it gets to the juvenile court records.
[02:38:03.920 --> 02:38:08.160]  But we just want to provide just a glimpse of the different type of data that we collect.
[02:38:08.160 --> 02:38:34.940]  But just to respect everyone's time, we just want to speak briefly that our office was asked by Senator McKay to convene a working group to look at youth and school data in terms of sharing data between schools, if a youth has maybe a behavioral incident, school safety violation, reintegration plans, what are the current processes that exist on how schools can access this data, and where are the gaps.
[02:38:34.940 --> 02:38:49.620]  And so, in general, we reviewed a whole list of statutory and board roles, as well as looking at the various data systems that the Utah State Board of Education oversees, as well as what are the type of data systems that different school districts oversees.
[02:38:50.400 --> 02:38:59.920]  And I'm thinking that all of y'all are more experts in those areas than our office, but really our role was just to help facilitate this working group and the different stakeholders that were involved.
[02:38:59.920 --> 02:39:13.300]  I won't go into detail, but there were a series of recommendations that came from this working group that focused on training, student record transfers, enrollment, cumulative files, as well as reintegration plans.
[02:39:13.440 --> 02:39:18.400]  And I'm happy to share those specific statutory recommendations if committee members are interested.
[02:39:18.900 --> 02:39:23.720]  But I think at this point, we just want to share that this was the major findings and the outcomes of this working group.
[02:39:25.280 --> 02:39:27.560]  All right. Thank you. We appreciate that presentation.
[02:39:27.560 --> 02:39:31.200]  I appreciate the committee's time for just a few extra moments.
[02:39:31.300 --> 02:39:36.360]  I'm just going to note that the presentation that they moved through very quickly is posted
[02:39:36.360 --> 02:39:39.480]  online with these recommendations, the data, et cetera.
[02:39:39.480 --> 02:39:44.180]  So you can see that under the meeting materials list for today's meeting.
[02:39:44.300 --> 02:39:47.480]  Thank you to our committee for making it through our long agenda.
[02:39:47.800 --> 02:39:52.260]  It's been great to have you and your engagement throughout interim.
[02:39:52.480 --> 02:39:55.900]  We've had a highly engaged and very productive interim.
[02:39:56.080 --> 02:39:57.040]  So thank you for your service.
[02:39:57.040 --> 02:40:00.000]  We're looking forward to seeing everybody in the general session.
[02:40:00.000 --> 02:40:02.140]  And with that, we'll take a final motion.
[02:40:03.100 --> 02:40:05.260]  We have a motion to adjourn from Representative Peterson.
[02:40:05.920 --> 02:40:07.200]  All in favor, please say aye.
[02:40:07.480 --> 02:40:07.820]  Aye.
[02:40:09.040 --> 02:40:10.220]  All right, that carries.
[02:40:10.400 --> 02:40:11.400]  We are adjourned.